8: Screen Fight Wisdom: Insights from an Action Director

Step into explosive action filmmaking with George Karja, where every punch, jump, and kick is a meticulously crafted dance between the actor and the camera. 

George unveils the secrets behind the seamless integration of choreographed fights and storytelling. He is not only the founder of the renowned LK Stunts Academy and La Katana Films in Madrid, but also embraces the raw intensity of independent film making. Learn how his unique journey, from Romania to Spain, shapes the characters that leap from script to screen, and why the ability to embody these roles is just as vital as the precision of a well-executed stunt.

Prepare to be enlightened by the symbiotic waltz between a director and their director of photography, where trust and vision coalesce to capture the true essence of a scene. George has a passion for narratives that resonates deeply with audiences, often featuring protagonists who rise against the tides of injustice.

From the golden era of action films to how contemporary cinema has shifted to a different portrayal of violence, George's interview is an inspirational interview on the aesthetics and meaning of action scenes. Whether you're a martial artist looking to translate your craft to the screen or a cinephile captivated by the thrill of action-packed storytelling, this episode promises a fusion of practical insight, creative inspiration, and the celebration of action movie magic.

Guest Instagram:
@george_karja
@georgekarja
@lkstunts
@lakatana_films
@roughdog.movie

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast, where we talk about intuition and where I interview artists, athletes and creative entrepreneurs. Today, we're going to talk about action movies, action actors, action directors, and we have an amazing specialist in that field, straight out of Madrid. Here we got George Gargia. Hi, george.

Speaker 2: 0:21

Hi Cindy, how are you?

Speaker 1: 0:23

I'm really good. Thank you, I was super excited to be talking to you today. So, first of all, you have a production company in Madrid. You also have an academy in Madrid. Tell us a little bit more about what you do as an artist, as an action artist, and what you do with your academy and with your film production company.

Speaker 2: 0:41

Thank you for having me here first of all. Thank you for having me here first of all and there are so many questions Because, yeah, I start with a lot of action first of all, a series called Scion, the Executioner, and short films also, yeah, I make some short films. So the transition to have a action team let let's say like that at the beginning was an action team. Lk Stance was simply the need to have people trained to make action on camera. That's why LK Stance came along and that's why, after a few years, became an academy to train people for action, and I design action choreography, so we have actors, but also stunt performers.

Speaker 1: 1:57

So first of all, can we maybe talk about the difference between being an action actor and a stunt, because I feel a lot of people they mix both they. As soon as you say that you're doing or at least me as an actress when I say, hey, I'm training to fight for the camera, they perceive me as a stunt and I do not define myself as a stunt. What is, for you, the difference between being an action actor, doing screen in China, in Hong Kong, the cinema?

Speaker 2: 2:48

which one I grew up and I learned so in Hong Kong's style, in Hong Kong movies. In that time there was a huge difference and people also were paid differently for making action as a stunt or making acting. But of course acting is different nowadays than how it was in the past. So we have to understand that. If in the past an action actor had some skills in fighting, action actor had some skills in fighting was enough to make some acting, to play some roles. So it was easier to make movies as, let's say, a protagonist, main character, because they give more importance and they give more to the physicality, right. In that time they didn't demand to have too much skills in action but give more importance to the physicality or a big muscle like Schwarzenegger, right. So that's why Jean-Claude Van Damme and a lot of people in that moment came to the cinema scene. Because Van Damme and a lot of people in that moment came to the cinema scene because Van Damme was more because of the gymnastic skills and muscle and physicality and his image became an action actor. So that's why an action actor became famous in that moment and became something.

Speaker 2: 4:26

There are for me very few action actors in the actual scene we can say an action actor. They are producers or they have the possibility to produce their own movies Tom Cruise, keanu Reeves and John Wick he have the power over his product, right? These are people. These are very few people that have the power over their product. That's why I feel that nowadays, it's most important the acting skills than the physicality skills, and a stunt performer will always be the guy to replace, only in the risky scenes, only for the risky scenes, right? That's why, nowadays, it's also important that an actor knows exactly when his work finished and when the stunt performer's work came, and make them be on the same page. It's very important to make them feel very synchronized. To make them feel very synchronized. Sometimes stunt performers try to act like the actor and actors try to act like the stunt performers, because both try to bring to life a character. So nowadays, it's most important the character than the actor, right?

Speaker 1: 6:03

So it's important to understand that this is teamwork and talking about teamwork, I really want to know more about your team because, I must say, I'm really blown away by your work, because you are this independent filmmaker. You're writing your own scripts, you're directing and also your films won awards in film festivals in the United States, which is phenomenal. So who do you work with? Do you work with action actors that then, for the risky scenes, will be replaced by stunts, or do you work with people that are all around and can do everything? Who do you cast for your movies?

Speaker 2: 6:42

and why right now, that always depends. In my case it depends of the product of the movie I make, right, because every movie or every character is different. In my case, most of the time I'm working like in, like the jackie chan team in the past, right, I'm trying to make work, independent cinema here in Spain. So usually how I work personally is more that old school style. But it's true that sometimes working with actors or, for example, a few days back, I just came from a movie where there was a big budget movie here in Spain where I work as a stunt coordinator Now that is different because in that case I went with two of my guys, two of my stunt performers, and what they did was to work with the actors performing, performing characters. In that case it's different because I'm working for the market. When I'm working as a style coordinator, when I'm working as a film director, in my independent movies, I will say both. Usually some of my guys are also prepared for the acting and also for the stunt performing.

Speaker 2: 8:08

And yes, especially in my case when I'm also an action actor, I like to make my own stunts and don't have a double as soon as I have the health and the possibility to do it by myself. I prefer to do it by myself. Okay, who knows in the future? Because a stunt performer, when you have a stunt double, when you have the big budget and the big producer behind you, that is different. You can't risk there, you can't risk their day job, you can't risk their money. Imagine that you have a big injury. Now all the production has to stop. So that is a big problem. You can't afford that. Only if you are Tom Cruise, as I said, when you have all the power over your product. Okay, I have in right now. I have this power over my movies. But I'm not working with the budget of Tom Cruise. I'm telling you no.

Speaker 1: 9:19

I would love to talk about that because obviously I'm trying to make my own action movie one day. That is the direction that I'm taking. I'm still asking myself a lot of questions how to make it. I really want to inspire upcoming filmmakers that have the dream to make an action movie. I want to inspire them so that they take action, and I know that you've been a super solution orientated guy. Whether you had budget no budget you still made it happen and your films won awards and you're even on streaming platforms. How do you put a team together? Because it's such a different ball game when you make a movie with talking heads, if I can say so, like a drama, and you have talking heads. Here we're talking action movies. The team you need for an action movie and if, on top of it, it's a sci-fi or something with special effects is huge. How did you make it happen? How did you, with or without budget, how did you put a team together? How did you find resources to make your own action movies?

Speaker 2: 10:20

Yeah, that is a good question, cindy, because well, first of all, I will not start a movie with big visual effects. If that is my first movie, I will start a movie where it doesn't involve too much visual effects, where the story makes sense, where you have alternative solutions all the time. You need to have alternative solutions all the time because problems will come and it's important to not try to emulate a big budget movie, because that is the big issues and the big fail of a lot of first directors, right, because they try to emulate everything and you have to make it work with less. And when I say make it work with less, as I said before, story telling and not too much visual effects. And it's important to have a small team that you are able to control, because the biggest team you have, the difficult will be to control and sometimes things are getting out of control and you cannot do more than cut your own vision. It's important that you make your vision work in the process, because the process is very complicated.

Speaker 2: 11:57

A lot of times I see people they try to make so many crazy stuff that they don't control On the day of the shooting. If they have, let's say, one sequence, they will cut to the middle and they will take off a lot of frames on a lot of shooting because of that problem they have. So you will hurt yourself at the end. You will hurt your own vision if you are doing that. So it's better don't have that much shooting in the day.

Speaker 2: 12:32

For example and in my case, when I know the problem now because I make a lot of mistakes in the way, so I know that you can put special effects or makeup effects, the same day you go with the dialogue line or dialogue lines with action. When I have a day only for the action, I will shoot only action and other day only dialogue lines right Between actors, because if you try to mix both, there is a lot of energy. That change, you know, and will not work. That is something that I saw so many times and I'm trying to organize like that. It's management At the end. All this it's management and have it clear what you will do that day and make it possible. It's better to make a short shooting and to make it happen the way you want than trying to make a difficult shooting and I'm telling you the most of the time will not happen and will be a mess.

Speaker 1: 13:47

What I'm getting is be efficient. Also, less is more, and don't try to make a Hollywood movie if you don't have the Hollywood budget. See how you can scale it down, but still stay true to your vision. Now coming back to the team that you need. So you are a guy, you're specialized in martial arts, screen fighting. You're to the team that you need. So you are a guy, you're specialized in martial arts, screen fighting. You're a choreographer. You're an actor. You're a director. You also are a professional editor. When you work on your movies, will you put on all these different hats? Will you do all of these things, or will you find people to delegate to that joins you in the editing room for the directing, or do you tend to be present in all those roles?

Speaker 2: 14:32

This is a question that I was asked so many times, because a lot of people don't understand how can I direct, act, produce, direct act, produce, stay with the actors, stay in the shoes of, as you said? But for me it's not something difficult to do, that the difficult one is sometimes the change of the energy Because, as I said, when you are in a place where you have to talk with actors and then you have to be aware of something else or try to solve problems, that is where things are going weird, right, and that is where complicated things. But when it came to action and when it came to art in the front of the camera or direct, it's for me it's the same thing. For me it's the same dance. You know what I mean? Uh, everything, for me it's after, flow, like it has to be fluently, and I'm, I am in the back of the camera, even when I'm in front of the camera. First of all, I have to trust in the guy back in the camera. In my DOP, I have to trust 100% and I always work with people that I know I can trust. If the guy is telling me okay, george, we have to repeat this one because, whatever, I will listen to him and I will say, yeah, we have to repeat this one because, whatever, I will listen to him and I will say, yeah, we'll repeat, no problem. Now if he said, for me it's okay, I will trust 100% because camera doesn't lie.

Speaker 2: 16:21

So many times you have a vision as an actor. I always say to actors this one, or even to the stunt people, because when I'm training them in my class, in my stunt academy, I always film, I'm trying to film the choreography and show them what is working, what is not working on camera. And then I showed the camera and they instantly said, oh my God, this is different, as I was thinking, because the camera changed the vision completely. So you have to trust the guy that sees the frame. You have to trust the frame, because the frame is different, that you can have the vision in the front of the camera. You have to trust the frame. So I have to trust the DOP. I have to trust the people around me. So I have to trust the DOP. I have to trust the people around me and having that, it's easy to be in front of the camera and dance with everyone.

Speaker 2: 17:16

Because when I think in a choreography, when I think in the shooting, whatever scene is I already in my mind, it's already edited, so I'm editing in my mind as we go. So if the dop change the plan for whatever reason in the set, imagine he can tell me I can do it like this, because I have here furniture or whatever I or the lens is not enough to take as you want. Okay, don't worry, in the next shot we'll make it from this other angle, so we cover that one. You can do it like this also. No, there are people that work by cover everything.

Speaker 1: 18:05

You know what that means, with that, cindy, you mean covering all the movements and all the angles. Is that what you mean?

Speaker 2: 18:11

Yes, they try to. If you have a choreography, you imagine that the choreographer the action choreographer let's imagine they make the choreography in the gym or wherever they didn't even come to the set the fight choreographer. Imagine that. So you have the typical director that just covers all that choreography by two or three shots and it's enough because you can see the choreography from the beginning to the end. That is one way to work, but I don't like that way because I like to tell a story with every shot, okay. So telling a story with every shot is something that you need to know. What is telling you that shot in this angle, okay, or in this another angle? Why is that? It has to have a reason why you choose that angle. You cannot make that angle just because you cover the shot.

Speaker 2: 19:18

That is not a reason for me. The people that work in the television usually they cover everything. Okay, we have it. The guy is coming here, then he's talking with this one and then he's going out. We finish for today. No, that is not working for me, because it has to be a reason when they talk each other. It's sometimes it's very important that dialogue. It's saying something important. Give me a close-up and then you open the shot to see when they go. It has to be a reason. So in the fight it's the same as in the dialogue.

Speaker 1: 19:56

I love what you're saying, that you see all your roles as being a part of one dance, because I come from a dance background and as a choreographer and I did a lot of work in theater and for me it was the same like being a dancer, a performer, a choreographer, the lights, everything is one dance. So I love that you have that same perspective in film and you say that the story is important, but how you capture the fight is how you're going to tell the story. So what are important stories that you are telling through your action movies? What are important characters, important stories, important themes that come across in your work and why? What inspired you to talk about these themes?

Speaker 2: 20:39

Wow. Well, so usually my main characters are people that have power and they are tired of to see people suffer. And they are some evil people. They are in, let's say, in the position of power, abusing other people in the worst position. So my main characters, they punish the evil. I like to, with my movies, I can somehow punish the evil. This is one of my usual characters nowadays.

Speaker 2: 21:26

I saw that it's something that I repeat sometimes, but I'm interesting to humanity. I'm interesting to what, in my way, to think about? What is a martial artist, what is a good, let's say the good, the principle of a human being? And I'm trying to tell a story about what I think life has to be. And I'm talking about love. I'm talking about love between characters. I'm talking about human problems, human problems at the end, because I I think that all the problems in the world came because of some human evil. And especially for me, the biggest issue in the world is greed. I think the anti-hero never fights because he is right. I think the evil people are the people that already have everything, have everything. They have no problems in life Just because of greed. Just they want more, and every war came for that greed also so.

Speaker 1: 22:48

In history we saw so many times that one I love that your stories are really talking about, standing up for what's right, for justice. There are stories of courage, of love. As I understand as well, you grew up in Romania. From a very young age, you were attracted to martial arts and Kung Fu. Is there anything in your childhood or in your upbringing and you moving to Spain as well like moving country is always also a very big event in our lives. Is there anything from you living in different countries, growing up in Romania, that influenced you as a filmmaker now within your artistic work and as a leader as well? Is there anything that influenced you?

Speaker 2: 23:34

Well, I came from a country where, when I grew up, was communism, dictatorial regime, dictatorial country. So, yes, in that time it was difficult to have the freedom that we have now in days, the freedom of expression. Because you see, what I said before about movies, when I say about my characters, my movies, at the end it's an expression art, it's an art of expression, it's an expression art, it's an art of expression. So in that moment I saw Hong Kong movies that was usually that came to the Chinese one, usually that we have in Romania at that time and that opened our minds as children and love to get outside the house and play, being heroes and martial artists. And also music. We always go to the USA music and Chinese movies and also Arnold Schwarzenegger, van Damme, all these guys in that time, stallone, drackey and all these people.

Speaker 2: 24:51

Right, that was in my childhood, that was the typical in my childhood and yes, I can tell you a story how it was in that time, just to make you understand how difficult it was just to have a dream.

Speaker 2: 25:12

You understand how difficult it was just to have a dream because I used to go from the very young age to the gym to train with some friends and I remember once coming from the gym when one of them and that guy was the typical guy that read a lot of magazine about actors, and we were just talking, just dreaming around, and he just tell me that he really wants to be a bodybuilder champion like Schwarzenegger and make movies, like Schwarzenegger and make movies. And when he said that, cindy, I'm telling you, my mind was like because I never dreamed about that, because in that how to say, in that dictatorial country, you don't have the right to dream. It's like they don't give you the right to dream, you are not allowed to dream. It's like they didn't. They doesn't give you the right to dream, you are not allowed to dream. And that was, for me, was the beginning of something I can tell you. The beginning was something that I will never forget.

Speaker 1: 26:23

And at what age did you move to Spain? Were you still a child or were you an adult? I came with 15 years and you coming from a country where there was dictatorship and where you felt that dreams were not allowed, and obviously growing up in a political context that impacted you as a child, when you came to Spain, was there a shift in how you felt as a creative being? Was there something that happened in how you perceived your dreams, your artistic expression?

Speaker 2: 26:58

I came with 15 years old. When that happened, the story I just tell you was like, let's say, 9, 10 years old and the dictatorial regimen already ends. So when I came with 15, things were differently. Things were differently in Romania already. What's happened when a country came from that and get freedom? Things are getting weird because people are getting like over freedom, I don't know how to. It's difficult to explain. So when I came to Spain, I just trained. I just trained martial arts. I trained weights, heavyweights or bodybuilders and just years after I started to put in practice the vision in with a camera. I bought a camera and I tried to make something there with my first camera, but it was years later.

Speaker 1: 28:00

yeah I would love to talk to you about you training in martial arts and you were saying how to shoot and choreograph an action scene. I would love to talk about the concept of violence. There are two things I would like to talk about is number one is what is the difference, the technical difference, between a choreographed action scene and violence in real life? And then the second part is why do we love actually violent action movies? Like, I hate violence as a person, but I'm trading as an action actress. I think those are important themes to talk about.

Speaker 2: 28:38

Okay. For me it's an art of expression. So I see violence in movies as an expression, as an artistic expression, and I don't want to go deeply into the explicit violence. I really don't like explicit violence. I feel that this year, especially this year, it comes a lot of because of the success of movies like John Wick. It comes a lot of action movies where action is very violent and very explicit. They try to do something but sometimes it's not the way to manipulate the sensation of audience.

Speaker 2: 29:26

I don't like when any movie or any media try to manipulate your point of view or things. I don't like that at all. So when you have something deeply inside that you have to express, as I said, a screenplay has to have soul. A screenplay has to have a soul. There is nobody in back of that script, in back of that story, to put that soul and that love. You can see it very quickly. You can see it very quickly in a movie. So the wave that came right now is not my point of view of action.

Speaker 2: 30:13

My point of view of action was always the old school cinema where people were always trying by doing something artistically. In the case of China or Japan, they came from the theater. There was always violence in the theater. They tried to put there in the stage the perspective of the war of the hero, let's say the story of the voyage of the hero, the typical travel hero travel. Voyage of the hero, the typical travel hero travel. And you can see that in the movies, in the old school movies, and you can see that the hero has something to understand about human being and even if the hero kills somebody, he will get to an understanding about the human being and he will get to the understanding and to change something in his behavior at the end of the story. If there is any change in the behavior of the story, we are doing something wrong, especially with the action movies. So I'm trying to go again to the classics With my movies. I'm going again and again to the classics.

Speaker 2: 31:36

Violence has to be played with, like I said before, like fluently, like a dance. It has to have something on camera that why there are so many explosions? Because explosions have that color. That's why, and make it full on screen that is like attractive for the people, why we have fast cars or something dynamic on the screen, because we need to have beauty in the dynamics of the movement. When I create choreography, I always look at the shape and the movement of the human body and I try to create something on the screen that has something beautiful to see. That's why it is what it is, that's why we put the punch right here, not here, and I'm not doing something like this, and I'm trying to create something beautiful that makes the painting, the frame, perfectly beautiful to see. You have always to see that as actual creator, action designer.

Speaker 2: 32:58

And if you make a, like I said before, if you want to see a car chase, you cannot just film the car chase, whatever it comes. You have to see that cars, you have to look after something, what you want to see on camera, what you have to see on screen. You have to see the speed, you have to see the dynamic, you have to see the danger, where the characters are in that moment. You want to see the danger, you want to feel the danger that came with that speed, with that car chase, not only two cars that are chasing each other. That is not the intention here. You want to say something. It's a storytelling. It's a storytelling all the time. So when you put violence on screen, you have to chase the storytelling. A storytelling it's everything, and how different it is with reality. Oh my god, it is all different because I came from a country where, after the revolution, it became very violent. I have so many bullies in my class I have to protect myself and, yeah, it was a lot of violence. I live that violence and I know what is real violence. I know it, I know very well and I don't like it at all. But also, when you go to every challenge, every box fighting, real fighting you know you have the rules there. That's right. You have the rules, you're made by the rules. But that's also different. That's right. You have the rules, you're made up by the rules, but that's also different. That is also different comparing with the screen action, screen fighting.

Speaker 2: 34:58

Most of the time when people came in my class when they already are martial artists or fighters in real life competition fighters, I have this difficulty to make them understand and to change the chip in their mind that this is an art expression. You don't want to hurt somebody, you don't want to hurt the actor, you don't want to hurt your mates, you want to have that beauty in movements, you have to have that big telegraphy. I'm always trying to make them understand what telegraphy is. When you came with the punch, I want to see the punch. I don't want to surprise you with that punch, no, all the contrary, I want to see the punch, I want you to see it coming and I want the camera to see coming my punch, because this is a dance of three people. When it's the choreography, or two, it's a dance of three.

Speaker 2: 36:02

The camera, it's part of the dance, so it has to be fluent between the three of us and it has to be beauty. And we have to think always in my mate, this is my, my frame now, this is the frame of my mate. I cannot stay right here. I can. I have to move. This is so. Perfection is millimetrical, millimetrical perfection. And the camera is also very important to know very well the choreography and to know how to move with the people on screen. It's very important to know all this. It's a lot of work to understand For people that already understand this.

Speaker 2: 36:48

It came easy when it came to to work on action. It came easy and it's even difficult to to to explain sometimes some things because it came naturally for me. Sometimes I'm making some shooting and it comes naturally. My body it's already making it, because it's like a body memory. Filming action it's a body memory also and you are doing it and you are shooting and without even realizing that. I respect all this, I respect the line, I respect the, let's say, the impact has to be in the middle of the frame, say, the impact has to be in the middle of the frame and all that things that you sometimes with the fast or with the action. It has to come naturally. People in Hong Kong that work in action every day, I'm sure they came naturally and they film in sequence and it goes perfect.

Speaker 1: 37:49

Thank you so much, George, for all your inspiration. As an action actress and as an upcoming action filmmaker of some sort, I feel super inspired by all what you said about story, about character, about emotions, about how you see everything like a big dance. To wrap up this interview, I know you're working on a project that is called Rough Dog and you also told me that you feel it's really going to impact your future as a creative. Can you tell us more about Rough Dog?

Speaker 2: 38:20

Yes, rough Dog. Oh my God, that was a project that came from nowhere. And all the projects that I'm working in, I'm always put my heart and it's always written in some moment of my life with a lot of heart, with a lot of love. But this one was a screenplay that I just have there and my friend of mine, my co-producer and good friend of mine, brian Thompson, just trust on me and he gave me the opportunity to make this movie possible and I'm very grateful.

Speaker 2: 39:01

It's very difficult now in days to have somebody. When we talked before that what you need to make a movie, I'm telling you you need somebody or a small team that trusts on you. That is the most important the moment you have somebody to trust on your vision, when you have a team that trusts on your vision, that it's all done, that is going well from there, well from there. So, yes, rough Dog, thanks to this trust on my people, on the stunt team I have, and Brian and Vladi, the DOP, we made so many crazy sequences. There are still so many to film, but we always have work done and I think at the end of the year we are able to show. I can't wait to show you. I can't wait to show you a first trailer or something, because I'm very proud. I'm very proud because with so little we make so much.

Speaker 2: 40:04

I'm sure people will love it and I think the action community will appreciate it. And I think the action community will appreciate it the 80s and 90s action lovers will know to appreciate it. And also, it came in the moment where miracles came in, because, you see, for me, movies, big budget movies like John Wick are a miracle, are a miracle. Cindy, I never believe that. The movies that I was watching, the type of movies, right, the kind of movies like the Killer of Joe Woo, to see it now produced by Hollywood, big production, hollywood, big production, oh my God, this is like crazy. I never believed I would see that in my life. So, and in a movie theater, in a big screen, I think I'm coming in the best moment with my type of movies.

Speaker 1: 41:07

I can't wait to see a trailer of Rough Dog. So where can people follow you? On Instagram, whether they want to work with you as an artist, with your production company, or come and take classes in your academy.

Speaker 2: 41:19

Well, it's easy to find me because, George Karja, there are not so much people calling George Karja. George Karja, La Katana Films, LK Stunts you can follow, you can see the work we are doing. I'm trying to upload as much as I can. I don't have too much time to upload all the things we are doing, but I'm trying also to show some behind the scenes. That is very interesting for the people to see the behind the scenes because you see how we work, how we manage to do what we are doing with so little and with a lot of talent for few people that I'm surrounded by. But I'm telling you, when you are surrounded by good people, things are getting well and the most important is the team in this job.

Speaker 1: 42:15

Thank you so much, George. I still have a lot of questions about action movies and I'm sure an episode two will be coming. Thank you so much, and I'll speak to you very soon again.

Speaker 2: 42:25

Oh my God. Thank you, cindy. Thank you, this was a pleasure. Thank you so much. See you soon.

Speaker 1: 42:32

See you.