The Loud Whisper Takeover
Featuring interviews with actors, stunts, dancers, filmmakers, action movie directors, athletes, Krav Maga teachers, acting coaches, and more.
Epic tales of changemakers, authentic personal stories, and top tips about the industry, the podcast is a treasure of knowledge helping storytellers of all kinds on their own journeys, and inspiring people to take action upon their own dreams.
Ever heard your inner voice getting louder and louder, urging you towards a new path? When our inner guidance starts to become so loud, we can no longer ignore it, and we MUST take action... This is often a time when life changes direction drastically. We are literally being called to take that leap of faith, make that phone call, write that script, make that film in other words, time to embrace our wildest dreams, shift gear, and grow exponentially.
Let's dive into the art of listening courageously to our inner compass. Because every one of us is destined to live a grand story and adventure while walking on planet Earth!
Headphones on, notebooks out, and buckle up!
Hosted by Cindy Claes.
The Loud Whisper Takeover
16: Going Viral, from Laundry Room to the World
Known as Hanna is Golden on socials, her dancehall videos received global attention and had millions of views. Hanna Min Jung Herbertson, a strategist who's danced her way into the viral spotlight, now shares her marketing wizardry.
This episode is for anyone looking to hire a social media specialist without falling prey to overpriced hype. Hanna, with her unique blend of NGO, startup, and creative industry experience, reveals the importance of understanding your creative brand's essence and how to shape your online narrative, ensuring your social media posts remain as authentic as possible.
From the bustling streets of New York, to the digital spheres of Sweden and Nigeria, Hanna's journey is a testament to the dynamic nature of social media and its boundless opportunities. Hanna's own story of a viral TikTok breakthrough from the laundry room proves that the right mix of consistency and authenticity can catapult anyone into the limelight.
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Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast, where we talk about intuition and top tips for the creative industry. Today, we're going to talk about social media and marketing strategy with a special guest, hanna Minjung Herbertson. Hi Hanna, how are you doing? Hello, I'm great. How are you? I'm doing awesome. I'm so happy to chat to you today. So, hanna, you have a background living in different countries, having actually been through different careers. How would you describe what you're doing today in a nutshell?
Speaker 2:I guess it's a melting pot of things I've done in my life. Like you said, I've done different things, lived in different places, different interests. What I'm doing is put it in boxes social media, marketing, consultants, manager, strategists it's all these different expressions, but I'm kind of all in one because I've done everything in different aspects. I work for an NGO and take care of their social media, and then I also do my own work on my own brand and ice golden, and then I help companies usually startups and creatives with some strategy and creative ideas. A lot of mindset work as well.
Speaker 1:that's in a nutshell, and sometimes I dj as well I would love to talk with you about working with a marketing specialist like you, because obviously some people are gonna going to take responsibility for it for themselves because they don't have the budget, maybe, to delegate that. But once we are in a position as a filmmaker, as an actor, as a dance company where we can delegate that to somebody like you, I feel there are some people in that field that ask a lot of money for absolutely zero result and they just like throwing sort of fairy dust in your eyes, like I remember a friend of mine recently. He was ready to I think it was 8,000 euros for a couple of months of having a digital media specialist, but when I looked at what she said she would do, it didn't reflect those 8,000 euros investment, if that makes sense. It felt like, yeah, okay, you're going to free a couple of hours for yourself, but it didn't lead to results. It didn't lead to proper analysis of the statistics. It didn't lead to a proper analysis of the product that he was working on.
Speaker 1:Number one is how do we work with somebody like you? And number two, how do we avoid I don't want to say scams, because I don't think that this woman was particularly a scam. I just think that her product was too highly priced for what she was offering, and I think when you are in a position where you don't fully know what a social media specialist can do for you, you can sort of fall for that. But then you might also be very disappointed because you don't really know what you should ask them for, if that makes sense. So how do we work with somebody like you and what should be the expectations?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's also a great question because it's a jungle out there, since also the changes of the algorithms and everything. You need a person If you're going to get consultancy from someone that knows what's going on, and there's many like specialists and maybe someone is really great at Facebook or great at Facebook ads and someone else is great on TikTok ads, so it's also okay. Where do you want to focus? So maybe, before you start even talking to anyone, you want to get your mind straight. Okay, where do you want to focus? So maybe, before you start even talking to anyone, you want to get your mind straight. Okay, where do I want to grow? Or who do I want to reach? And then that makes you a better person, a better buyer of services, I would say. Because someone that comes to me and be like okay, I need to go viral, I need to be the biggest account on Instagram. I'm like, yeah, I don't want to work with you because you don't know what you want. Like you, it's too much. Like you want the whole cake but you don't know what flavor you want. So, yes, you can shop around and have conversations beforehand, like with different people that are working in marketing, because there's people that work at big agencies. They have different, a little bit different ways of working. Maybe talk to someone like that, maybe talk to someone that's a solopreneur and doing like just working by themselves. So there's kind of yeah, see what goes on out there.
Speaker 2:And for me personally, I like to teach people, like as a dance teacher, like I like to teach people how to do it themselves, so they can be confident posting themselves and learning. And then maybe like when bigger budget comes in, then they can hire people and then they're already going to know this is how it worked when I was posting and then they can direct the person that they hired to do this work better. So I think it's great to learn as much as you can before you hire people to do it for you. So it can be a combination like both of my mindset work and like maybe working on people, like their confidence, getting their confidence up or digging okay, what's actually? You think there's some qualities you have, but maybe you don't think about it yet. So that's like how I work with them. I'm like, all right, what about this aspect of your life that can be really interesting to people? They're like, really, I'm like, yeah, try it. And then a combination of teaching them like how to edit videos or how to post, et cetera.
Speaker 1:I love what you said Try to become a better buyer of services. That is so important. Becoming a better buyer of services, knowing what we want, not hesitating to shop around and have some sort of basic skills so that you can basically interview the people you're going to work with. So, from what I understand is if we wanted to work with somebody like you, it's number one is know which platform we would want to make grow, because different people have different specializations. So don't expect somebody that is a social media specialist to know all the platforms they might have a specialty. Are there any other questions that we should ask them? If you say shop around, what sort of questions should we ask?
Speaker 2:them that ask them what are their strengths and what are their weaknesses, and if they don't admit that they have any weaknesses, then they're probably not good, because everyone needs to know, okay, this is my specialty, this is what I'm really good at, and then admit okay, I admit that I'm not the greatest at paid ads.
Speaker 2:I can do basic stuff, but I'm not a paid ads specialist, so that I'm going to delegate to someone else, for example, that Maybe ask them for case studies, like things they've done in the past examples. If they don't, if they're just starting out, then you maybe you can have a trial period for three months, for example. So you see, because sometimes upcoming people that just came out of school can be really hungry and do a lot of things, but sometimes maybe they need that background of knowing how to do things because they've done it for years. So it can be a mix. It's not a bad thing to beginner, but sometimes it can also be. If you've done it too for 20 years, then maybe you get stuck in your ways and yeah, so it's a combination of that.
Speaker 1:What's the difference between working with solopreneurs and agencies in the field of social media marketing?
Speaker 2:So, for agencies. They usually have different people with different expertises. So just someone that only works with video editing, someone that only does graphics. So it's usually also a pretty high cost because all these people need to get paid, but they have maybe, like all these, like in the house at their agency. They have all this expertise and the solopreneur maybe yeah, like I said before, can be good at a wide spectrum, but maybe not great at all, or they have a niched.
Speaker 2:Again, this is this is what I do as a solopreneur, so that's what you need to suss out. And also, of course, like personality wise, it needs to be someone that you vibe with in the sense that you trust. Trust is the main huge thing. If you're giving someone your password to your social, that's giving them a lot of access. So, trust seeing, okay, what are their strengths or what are their weaknesses. So what am I going to pay them for to focus on? It's better to tell them to focus on something maybe smaller, like I want you to focus on only editing videos or whatever it is, than to like make me big on all the platforms, or so, yeah, it's um.
Speaker 1:That I would say it's good to to keep in mind you said that you're working on mindset with people, so does your career as a social media specialist help you work on people's mindset?
Speaker 2:Tell us more Well it's also like coming in from different angles. Since I am a creative, I work as creative, I know how it is to be on that side, and then I also wear these hats of more of the business person and talking about marketing. And then I also have to wear these hats of more of the business person and talking about marketing. And I noticed through my own experience as well that it's so much about mindset. It's so much about getting to know yourself to be able to reach out as well to the masses, if you want to say, or to your target audiences. So I try to help artists with getting over these mental bumps we can call them, because a lot of times that's the biggest hurdle. People want to blame the algorithms, but usually it's your own, like the voices in your head and maybe the expectations of yourself, that stops you from reaching the next level. So it's a lot about mindset, a combination of knowing the know-how, the technical stuff of editing videos, etc. So, yeah, I come from two different places in that sense.
Speaker 1:So you have a background as a DJ. You've also worked alongside singers and artists as well, and obviously you have been, and are still, a dancer, especially in the world of hip-hop and dancehall. So you said people often blame the algorithms. So what are other sort of mindset challenges that people need to get over? Can you clarify a little bit? Is it the type of content that they need to create? Is it doubting the content? Is it being scared to go viral or being scared to be vulnerable on social media? What are the challenges they have to overcome to be?
Speaker 2:vulnerable on social media. What are the challenges they have to overcome? A key word vulnerable vulnerability. Because people they want to come out and be perfect with whatever you're doing and you think you have to be perfect when you deliver it. But so much of the process of promoting yourself or promoting a brand or a product. It's about trying and challenging yourself, challenging your own you know beliefs, or maybe challenging your own you know beliefs. Or maybe you know you. You know that you're really good at something, but then you think, okay, but now I have to go to social media and then I don't know anything about social media.
Speaker 2:Whatever you're good at, it's gonna, if you dare to take the step to put yourself out there, then it's gonna, you know, reach another level. So it's a. It's a. There's a combination of working with your own development and your own mindset. The main challenge, I would say, is vulnerability and putting yourself out there and maybe looking stupid, like I always. I always told my dance students in the beginning don't expect you to be a perfect dancer. That's why you come into class to have fun and look, look stupid in the beginning. And the same thing goes for social media. You're not going to be a professional, perfect social media person right away. It's a learning curve.
Speaker 2:So, put yourself in a beginner's mindset. Maybe you're professional or you're an expert in one area, and that's great and you're going to help people with that, but maybe when it comes to putting yourself on social media, that's when you need to go back to okay, I'm a beginner at this. Be humble, be vulnerable and then, with each content you post, you're going to learn.
Speaker 1:So how can people create, let's say, vulnerable content without exposing, obviously, their deepest self, that they're not ready to expose? But how can we create vulnerable content that is more than just factual right? If I'm working on a short film instead of saying, hey, here is a short film, how can I add that little personal touch that still has vulnerability? Can you give us an example of maybe somebody that you've coached or something that you've done yourself on social media that has worked Everything?
Speaker 2:that lets people in on something that you are, you know, willing to show of your personal life or your personal story. That's always something because people connect with people, don't connect with someone that's a robot that's going to just sell something. So, for example, I'm working with an artist now. He's a singer, he's upcoming, and he was having these thoughts like I don't want to show myself too much, or how much am I going to show, you know? And he was testing things out, like he wasn't too sure post it, but he was testing things out, or how, what do I feel comfortable with? So he found certain things, aspects of his life, like him hanging out with some of his family members just doing like you know, walking in the woods, uh, him having fun with this, like musicians in the studio trying out different sounds.
Speaker 2:So it can be. You know, often the times it's the things you don't think about in the first, when you just start to brain, when you start to think up ideas, open to what's going on. Of course, like set, you have your boundaries right. I'm not going to show this and that from my life, but there's a lot of things that's happening in your life that maybe you know. You never know, like this could be something that at least I enjoy it, maybe others will enjoy it and usually it's like that when it's something that you generally are passionate about and it could be this niche thing that's what people connect with. So a combination of showing something out of your personal story and something quirky, so to speak, or something that maybe you don't expect.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what I'm really getting from what you're saying is it can be in the smallest little things that we share, like a walk in the woods, but basically it's about showing that we are a human being with a human life and that we're not a logo. Our face is not a logo. We are real human beings that are doing real human things. I would love to talk about you as a dancer, because you were a dancer in New York. You had a long career in New York and, like every dancer, you were just like working really hard and you had a career like every artist, with up and downs. And then you're moving back to Sweden, you go into a new path being a social media specialist and you go viral. So can you talk about that journey, both what that meant to you as an artist and also what happened, how come that you went viral and how did you live that experience?
Speaker 2:In a smaller scale I would maybe. You see these artists and they seem to come out of nowhere and people are like, oh, like, oh, this is one hit wonder, this person just got lucky or something. And so when I think back on my dance career in that sense, you know I put in so many years. You know we met in the beginning of our international careers and you know, trying different things, going to different classes, travel, like just trying to absorb as much, learn as much as possible and then starting to teach as well, of course. And in New York I learned that you can't just be a dancer, it's you need other skills to survive. That's why I picked up DJing. I learned more about the music industry, for example. So the dancing was the motivator that pushed me forward in life to network also, learn how to network and learn about marketing and the technicalities.
Speaker 2:But after some years in New York, you know I had to do so many like different side jobs to get by, to pay my rent, projects that you had high hopes were, and then it didn't turn out the way you wanted to. So, learning from all the mistakes, and then I was really tired after almost 10 years in New York. So I was like, all right, I feel like I'm just pushing my head against the wall here. Nothing's really happening, I'm not going forward really. So I was like, okay, I need to take a break from it all. And that's why I moved back to Sweden and put the dancing on the shelf, so to speak, because I was like I feel like I accomplished some things. Maybe I didn't get as far as I wanted to, but you know, at least I felt I had I've gotten somewhere. Of course, like without New York I would, I don't know where I would be. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna focus on the marketing now, because I was already into marketing. But I was like I'm gonna put my, my whole focus into it.
Speaker 2:And then, when TikTok came along and I felt okay, and I need to learn TikTok because it's a big marketing tool. So I just used myself as the experiment to learn about the platform. So I just started doing different things, like skits, using different sounds, more like funny stuff, humor, and of course, I can also use myself as a dancer, because it's popular on this app. So I started experimenting with different dances and jumping on different dance trends, and especially when I started doing my laundry room dance skits or short dance videos. That's when I started going viral and I didn't expect that at all. It wasn't my goal to go promote my own dancing because I was done with dancing. That was, that was my former life.
Speaker 2:So it was a big surprise, but also very powerful to see how social media can change your life in a sense and to how you can reach people. That because I knew the people. That from promoting my classes and all that before in New York and everywhere, I knew who like the people were, who are my core audience. So I noticed, okay, I can actually reach these people also, but also reach a wider audience than them through social media. So many learnings and so much joy as well, because the comment sections are really positive and encouraging. So it's been a very uplifting part aspect that I didn't expect at all. That also complemented my own marketing career when I worked with brands, because I learned from you know me going viral and posting. I learn all the time and I learn how, especially how you can never really trust anything like any. Now I'm not big on this platform. I'm good. I don't need to go and learn this new one. No, you need to try different platforms to stay relevant as well. So it's a continuous journey.
Speaker 1:So we'll talk about the different platforms a little bit later, but can you tell us how many views did you actually get when you went viral? Because I think you went viral several times with those laundry dance videos how many views did you get?
Speaker 2:Maybe the one that had the most views is about four and a half million, and then I have maybe 10 videos that have over one million at least I haven't really counted them literally, but yeah, so it's been quite many views.
Speaker 1:And what made it so successful? Because obviously that's question that all artists are asking themselves is what can make a video so successful? You are dancing while doing your laundry in the laundry room, and is it because you were posting often? Was it consistency? Was it a particular video that was just more funnier than others? Like what? What made it successful in terms of because you were testing things on yourself?
Speaker 2:what were you actually testing that was? So it's a number of different factors, I think. So it's like unexpected. I'm a asian woman and then I do dance hall and I'm pretty good at it and then I post consistently.
Speaker 2:I'm trying different functions of the platforms, like replying to comments, for example, replying to comments with a video, because the algorithms, they can help you in a way. So I'm trying to see what can I do to just surf on the algorithms in a way. So, yeah, it's really a combination. I was trying to keep up also like replying to comments and keeping new uh conversations going in the comment section, because that also counts and plus, it's fun because it's very especially on tiktok, the comment sections are usually like full of comedy. So, yeah, I think those are the main things, like, yeah, so checking out what's trending or what's popular, but making it your own version, maybe show something unexpected or twist something around that's people are thinking like, right, this is what this is about, but then maybe you like you make it a plot twist, keep up with the technical, different technical aspects of the platforms. What can you try to use and that might give you a boost for free? And, yeah, and stay social on the social platforms.
Speaker 1:If I have to summarize what you just said now, jump on a trend, give a plot twist to the trend, engage in comments, stay consistent. I have a question about the trends. Some people are very aware about what's trendy and other people have no idea what's even trending. How can we become more aware of a trend?
Speaker 2:I spend a lot of time surfing and scrolling. So that's how I'm aware, especially on TikTok. You can do searches If you're in a certain niche or certain keywords. You can do searches If you're in a certain niche or certain keywords you can do. If you go up on like search. You can type in a sentence or a couple of different words. Then you can also trickle down that search and you can divide into this word, for example, a smoothie with spinach.
Speaker 2:Now you can type in like hey, what the latest videos with those two words in the last month or last week or last 24 hours, and then you can see, okay, what's actually like trending right now, or what's been happening with these words for a period of time. Or you can see which videos has the most likes talking about this subject. So that's a very like quicker way to find your audience or what are the other creators doing in your niche. So the search bar in especially tiktok is very useful because it also it functions like a like google. These days people use it as google.
Speaker 2:And also, when I say trends, I don't get too locked in with like people like, ah, but I don't want to do trends, yeah, but you can use a slight aspect of a trend and then make it your own. It's it's what we do as creatives we create something new, but you don't always have to invent everything from scratch. Like. Tiktok is a very collaborative platform, so you can take inspiration, give that person credit. If you take a big chunk of their content, or if you get inspired and then make it your own, I would say it's very useful and also physical collaboration with other people on these platforms are usually very successful as well.
Speaker 1:So you said that people are using TikTok searches now a little bit like Google. Are these TikTok trends, do they translate to Instagram? Are they the same trends? For example, if you have a trend on TikTok, will the same trend work on Instagram or on Facebook or YouTube? I don't know. Or does each platform have their own trend in a specific moment in time?
Speaker 2:I would say maybe around 70%, if I would just guess. A number goes over to Instagram. So it's quite a lot of trends that eventually end up on Instagram. The time span is getting a little bit closer. Before it was maybe three, four weeks or months after people come oh, have you seen this on Instagram? Saw this on TikTok like four months ago. But some trends translate pretty quick. So I would say that's why I encourage people to like well, post what you're posting on TikTok. You can might as well try to post it on Instagram as well, because people are moving faster these days.
Speaker 1:And when it comes to algorithms, how do they work? Apparently, they change all the time as well. Is there anything that you can demystify for us in regards to algorithms?
Speaker 2:I'm not an algorithm maker. I'm always also trying to figure out what's happening. But basically you don't want to get too stuck in thinking like that. You want to please the algorithm. You want to reach the target people. So if you think about that instead of thinking just algorithms, then eventually your content is going to find its way to your peoples. So if that's using what you're saying in your videos, what you're talking about the subjects, if it's about you're into flowers, for example, you're painting flowers, you're writing books about flowers. Different ways to find the people with keywords, the words you put in your videos, the words you put under the caption text, different ways.
Speaker 2:If you interact with other people that are talking about the same thing, go into their comment sections. Don't go into comment sections but like hi, I'm also doing this and look at my page, be generous. It's like meeting someone in real life. You don't want to be like oh, hi, you don't hit them straight away with what you want to sell them. You want to make friends, so to speak, or be sociable. And then people maybe, oh, they want to go and check out your page. Or if you want to do collaboration with this person that's getting a lot of traction or talking about similar things, and it's the same thing like you're doing a podcast and you're interviewing another podcaster. It's like rings on the water. So same way there. So don't get too stuck. Just think algorithms. But thinking about about, okay, how can I reach these people? And if this doesn't work, okay, try another way. Like maybe side from up or down. Yeah is that says when the algorithm can either help you or stop you.
Speaker 1:So that's what you have to play around with I love what you said about leaving comments in people's videos, because I always feel very shy, like sometimes I can follow people's work on Instagram, but I feel shy actually to comment and actually because of the podcast I started commenting more because I'm so excited about the podcast and I'm like, hey, I love your work. I would love to connect. By the way, I have a podcast and then we start talking in DMs but like you said.
Speaker 1:It's like a real life conversation. It doesn't feel like I'm not selling anything. They're not selling anything. We're literally just connecting because we are on the same wavelength. For some reason or another. So you talked about creating content for your target audience, so know who you're speaking to. So make sure that whatever you say in the video is really related to your target audience. What about hashtags? Are hashtags still a thing and if yes, how can we use them to the fullest?
Speaker 2:The broad, wide hashtags. For example, if you use the word podcast, that's very wide, right, so maybe niche it down to the subject you're talking about today or the niche of music that you're doing. But you know, and also it goes up and down, like with algorithms. Like sometimes hashtag matter, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes, when I don't use any hashtags, and also because of SEO, search engine optimization, maybe you don't even have to hashtag where you can use the word and that works fine as well. Yeah, don't get too caught up in the hashtag game. Don't add too many hashtags. Like less is more, I would say, so you can try a different post, like maybe one hashtag, one without one, maybe two, three hashtags, but maximum four, I would say four-ish, so you don't want to like overdo it really awesome.
Speaker 1:That's really good to know, actually. So question you have a massive background in dance. How do you think dance gave you the skills to become a better marketer and a better entrepreneur Because obviously you're consulting now, you're giving one-to-one coaching and so forth how did dance give you the mindset or the skills as a freelance entrepreneur in the world of marketing, I guess.
Speaker 2:I got into it a little bit earlier. To be able to go after a passion, you have to put yourself out there, be vulnerable, to teach people. You got to use your voice and find ways to reach people so they can adapt, like what you're trying to tell them. And with dance classes, then you teach them how to move their bodies. So it's all a combination, that to be driven by a passion, something that you love, and then finding, okay, do I love teaching or do I love more performing or do I love both? It's all a process of okay, what do I want to do right now? Or what do I want to focus on right now? Because it's through life, it will change.
Speaker 2:Maybe before, when I moved to New York, I was like this is what I'm going to do. I didn't really think about the future. And then life happens and the focus has changed. So, wherever you are right now, think about okay, what can I do to amplify myself? Or how can I get better? How can I reach people on the socials or in real life? Put yourself in position to maximize. Maximize your growth, I would say, because, if I never, I grew up on a little island in the Baltic Sea, right and without any internet.
Speaker 2:Really back in the days there was hardly any social. If I would stay there, it would be hard for me to grow and become viral later in life. So my journey was to leave physically. Move, get to know new people, expand my network. Go to New York. Expand my network even more. Go to Jamaica to learn about the foundations of what I was passionate about.
Speaker 2:So whatever you were passionate about, like, try to learn as much as you can from the creators. Maybe go travel to those places where it's from. This became a long story now, but everything's connected and everything takes time as well, so don't stress yourself out. If you're in your early 20s, for example, you feel like, oh, I want to reach this right now, I want to be here now, I want to have a million subscribers. But if you take a breath and take okay, one step at a time, and how can I actually build a good foundation for myself to step and then step out and maybe do something else in the future, but still have knowledge from whatever you've done before? When you change careers, you always take something with you in your backpack.
Speaker 1:In regards to social media and promoting yourself as an artist. You have lived and worked in different countries, have lived and worked in different countries, so obviously there is Sweden, there is New York, jamaica, belgium, nigeria. There are many countries that had have had an impact on you and where you know the different creative industries very well. Do you feel people relate to social media in a different way or use it in a different way, or you connect with your community in a different way depending on where you live or not?
Speaker 2:great question. I think when I was in Nigeria, that's when my mind really expanded a lot, because there's so many especially also like creatives that hardly have anything but they create amazing content with such high quality that I've never really seen anywhere in that way. So I was blown away about how inventive, entrepreneurial people were there, like with so little resources. So that was really a big inspiration and motivator for me as well. Yeah, each country has its own, of course, its own cultures and challenges.
Speaker 2:Korea is it has been a very closed culture country, I would say. Or they stay with okay, what's korean is good. Compared to, maybe, japan, that's been very like okay, what can we what's out in the world. And they've been traveling around a lot more, and it reflects also in how people treat social media, of course. So, yeah, learning from each trip and from also.
Speaker 2:That's why I try to follow people from around the world as well. That's a good advice, I would say, to recommend to people to follow people in different geographies, but also in different niches, to see, okay, what are people doing, because it's easy to get stuck in a bubble. So maybe I recommend also to have different accounts for yourself, maybe one account that's more for exploring and getting inspired from different cultures, and then maybe one account that's more of your business focus, I would say, because the algorithms kind of shape your feed and it also shapes who sees your content. That's a recommendation. I know it maybe sounds a lot to have different accounts, but it can be helpful and also to not get stuck in your little bubble.
Speaker 1:I think that's great advice to have different accounts. I have different accounts because I have my nonprofit, I have Cindy the artist and because, obviously, both accounts were created at a different period of my time. Actually, the algorithms are working differently and I'm seeing different things on my feed, and you're right, it's shaping the way you see the world, and why not try and watch different things so that algorithms open up doors and inspiration for you? I want to go back to the example that you give about Nigeria. You said that you were very impressed by the way they created content with very little resources. Can you give an example? How did they create with very little resources and for what purpose?
Speaker 2:Yeah, some of the first content creators I encountered in Nigeria were dancers, because I connect with dancers very easily and I was so impressed by the quality of their content. Sometimes they use very good cameras or just sometimes they just use phones, but the quality like the videographers. Sometimes the videographers were also dancers, but how they, how they shot things, how they edited things and you know post-production there was so mind-blowing and I don't think they have any formal education in anything. I think that's a natural skill, plus maybe just learn from youtube, probably comparing that, for example, when america is there, people get a lot of things served. Or in sweden people get served like all these fancy equipment or it's easier to get them, but the videos don't have that high quality. So that was a big wow. For me, it's about your creativity and how you use the technology that you have.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about community building. You have already touched about it a little bit. You said engage with your followers, engage with people. That comment. Reply to the comments. Is there any other advice you could give to artists on how to truly build community in the long term? So not people that are just like liking one video and commenting there, but how can we really engage with people in the long term?
Speaker 2:yes, I would actually recommend the old school way to do a newsletter or collect people's emails, even phone numbers if they want to, because that's where you can. You can reach directly people directly into their email, because even if people follow you, usually they don't see your videos, even because algorithms they want to show them so many different things. So, yeah, gathering their emails is a great tool, and also many subscription type services are presented. Now, I haven't I haven't really wrenched into them that much, but it works for some people. I think maybe it's easier if you have really, like a huge following or if you're very niched, I would say, so that can also be a good tool too. So they people pay a smaller amount but you provide them with content that only them can see, for example. Yeah, those are the two main advice I would say right now newsletter and subscriptions.
Speaker 1:Try subscription-based content distribution so let's talk about the different platforms. Maybe we can talk about instagram, or instagram and facebook first. What would be your general advice for artists, creatives, filmmakers, dancers, actors that are on these platforms? What are some do's and some don'ts?
Speaker 2:Yes, so we can come together Facebook and Insta, because they're owned by the same company. It's called Meta. Of course, facebook has a slightly older crowd hanging out there and Insta's a little bit younger, but they're quite similar, I would say. But still, insta is the biggest one. So the good thing about Instagram is that you can reach a wide audience.
Speaker 2:So Instagram you can do this collaboration post, for example. So that's a really great tool. And also to connect with other people. You can have, maybe different accounts that you can do your collaboration post with. And also Stories is a great tool to do quick updates what's going on without thinking too much about it, Because sometimes people watch your story more than they're going to watch your posts. So those tools are really great to use. And also you can do different countdowns if you're having an event and you can save those stories also to highlights. So those are some of my favorite functions with Instagram.
Speaker 2:And also you can see easily who. If you have a video that's going being like very, going, very popular, like you feel like, oh, this has viral potential, you can also go in and see who's sharing your video. Even though they don't tag you, you can go in and see, if you press these three dots on the right corner of your post on your feed not on your real feed, but on your main feed Then you can go and see who's reposting your video, for example, and you can thank them, give them a heart, give them a thank you for sharing my content and usually people that maybe they don't follow you, but they share the video and then they look up and she's actually showing appreciation and then they start following, for example. So it's a good way to be social and also show like that you appreciate their support. So those are the good things with insta, but also it's it's a very crowded platform, so I guess that's like the.
Speaker 2:You know the tough part as well. It's tough to reach, as if you're just starting an account, if you're very new there. That's when it comes to don't focus on how many followers you have or many, how many likes, especially in the beginning, but focus on reaching your target people, because I noticed that Instagram, their algorithm is getting better. When I'm, when I'm liking different things, they show me it's getting more and more like TikTok. They're showing me, according to my interest, what I've been watching.
Speaker 1:What are your thoughts on Facebook groups? Is it worth to have a Facebook group? Is it too much investment in terms of time, is there not enough return on investment, or is it a great way to actually build community?
Speaker 2:it could be a great way. I haven't started Facebook groups really myself. I'm part of a few and I kind of scroll on Facebook sometimes but I'm not that invested so I don't think it has the value it used to have. But also, depending, if it's a niche, that people want to be in a community, then yeah, it can be really helpful. So it's investigated, maybe try it out, see if it works. But don't put maybe like too much of your hopes into Facebook groups. Maybe it's better to you're being a part of different Facebook groups and seeing what's going on, and then you can take inspiration Okay, what works? So what are people getting excited about in those groups? And you can use that, that knowledge.
Speaker 1:So it's also a tool for learning let's talk about tiktok, the wild wild west of tiktok. I know that you love that platform and you actually have a lot of clients that you put on that platform or you're creating content or you create their strategy for that platform. Tell us more about more about TikTok and why this is actually a platform full of opportunities for creative people and artists.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love TikTok, but you know me and TikTok. We have a toxic relationship, so it's up and down, no, but really it's still. In the beginning it was much easier to go viral or to reach people, and now, because it's every platform, they want to make money, so they have advertisers coming in and they're taking up space, but there's still chances, especially chances of reaching your target audience. It's harder to go viral. I would say so don't come in there and expect to go viral, but expect to. Okay, this is the platform that's going to help me to reach my peoples, because that's what I still see is working well.
Speaker 2:And also, of course, like being vulnerable is like the people always say that you don't have to put on makeup, like they used to be on Instagram, Like you don't have to be perfect, and of course, that's still true. And but some people, if you want to make really nice, cool, clean, really great edited videos, that's also there's a lot of appreciation for that as well. So, to sum it up, there's still possibilities and there's still a lot of potential to reach your peoples, especially if you're a creative on there and also reuse the inspiration, because I usually I get inspired from scrolling or watching other people on tiktok and I make my but and then I post it also on Instagram. So that's my I get my boost, of boost of inspiration on TikTok and then I can use that for, you know, whatever platform.
Speaker 1:Would you say that on TikTok that people of all ages are on TikTok nowadays, or is it still for a much younger crowd?
Speaker 2:When it comes to content creators, there's all ages and usually if you're a little bit older, for example, you can do very well just because you stick out and you're doing something that's considered oh how can this person do this when they're this age? Or if you're a younger age and you're doing something that maybe older people usually do, something that sticks out. So I really highly encourage people that are not typical TikTokers. Go on on there, because you're gonna find people that really appreciate that you're doing this. The audience is still slightly younger than I would see on instagram and facebook especially, but there's so many also 30, 40, 50 year olds that's just scrolling there as well, like most people. Probably 90 of people on tiktok don't post anything themselves. They just scroll and watch, so there's a lot of people on it don't post anything themselves, they just scroll and watch, so there's a lot of people on it. Maybe the people that are commenting and doing more active stuff are the younger people.
Speaker 1:So you're saying that we can post low production value videos on TikTok and people just love those videos without makeup and anything. We see a lot of, I would say, influencers on Instagram that produce beautiful pictures, beautifully edited videos. Like you can see that they put time and effort and sweat in the quality of what they're putting out there, and then some people are very raw, right. So what would you recommend to people that might not have all the technical skills to produce the best photos and the best videos? Would you say, only go for perfect, go with what you got, go with the raw, wait until you're ready and you can show something that's of higher quality. What would be your take on that?
Speaker 2:Of course, I'm going to say go with what you got. The most important thing is that you start to post, because you're going to learn with everything you do and it's going to be a progress. Like we say, you're not going to be a professional superstar right away. Start with your old dingy phone or whatever it is. Maybe it's going to be shaky or whatever, but the most important thing is that you're starting to talk to your audience and then, down the line, maybe you want to take a class and learning more about editing, or you want to do coaching sessions with me or whoever can teach a little bit more about the technicalities. I see many people that start off with the shaky, low quality videos but then they advance and then maybe they hire someone in the end to do it for them. But yeah, start with what you got. The most important thing is to start.
Speaker 1:I would also love to talk about a very personal story of yours that you have started to be very vocal about on social media. In your biography you often refer to you being imported from South Korea to Sweden. Can you tell us more about what that means for you and why you decided also to share that on social media?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've cause. I grew up in a with a white mother. It's been hard. I can never deny or hide that I was adopted, but I have maybe not I didn't really share it that much before, maybe just small details here and there.
Speaker 2:But my own personal journey and when I started going to Korea when my first trip back to Korea was in 2014, and I was already putting myself on social media with dancing I was like no, this is happening in my life, so I want to share it with people and maybe it can also inspire people to search for their roots, whether they're adopted or not. So I started sharing bits and pieces, because, also, I thought I was going to be able to share a lot more. But then when it got really personal or I got very emotional situations, I was like I can't film myself and do this at the same time. So that was also a learning for me to don't push yourself too much to put things on social media, like sometimes you need to heal and go through some things and then maybe then you can start posting after or whatever works for you.
Speaker 2:Everyone has their own processes. But you know, I noticed also when I started sharing this story, maybe different people started dming me like, thank you for sharing this. I could really relate. Or, even though I'm not adopted, I felt something, yeah, when people expressed that they were thankful and yeah, you should actually please share more of this, and I was like, okay, if this is doing something for others, then I'm going to insert it here and there. So it's been yeah, that's been in my feed as well from time to time what would you say in the next five years?
Speaker 1:where do you see yourself going in the next five years, not just professionally, but in terms of who you want to be as a woman in the world? Do you feel you want to talk more about adoption? Do you want to give space on your platform to talk about that theme? Or do you want to talk more about dancers? Or is there another field where you feel like you want to open the doors for conversations around certain themes in the next five years?
Speaker 2:good question, because multi-hyphenates and multi-passionate people. There's so many different aspects you want to, you want to, you want to highlight at the same time, but I think I'm trusting the process here. Yeah, and especially when it comes to adoption, I maybe start a podcast and let other people talk because I'm I'm like, an expert in my journey. But there's, when it comes to the whole industry or what's going on in like the, in politics, that I'm not an expert when it comes to that and other people are, way, you know, more knowledgeable. So maybe I want to give them a platform to speak in some type of way and, of course, like I want to be as as a dancer as well, I want to continue to grow and learn. So we'll see how that will work out, combining it with my marketing career as well.
Speaker 2:It's yeah, it's not. I have a crystal clear path. Right now, I'm in my exploration phase, I would say, and I'm just excited for what the future will bring, because it's it will bring something golden, and I just don't know exactly what it is right now, but I'm just keep, yeah, keep posting what I feel you know comes naturally and what also, what challenges me. Like, okay, how can I push myself to do this, or how can I try to get into this area and also collaborating with people and having conversations with people like you and just being inspired by what people are doing and then seeing, okay, how can I apply this to my own journey?
Speaker 1:own journey. Has your knowledge in regards to social media and digital marketing? Has it changed your relationship with your art? So your dancing, your DJing, has something changed in your relationship with your creative practice?
Speaker 2:Yes when it comes to okay. How can I phrase this? I think it also has to do with my personal journey. Before, maybe I wanted to keep it up close, I wanted to work with these people, but now I'm okay. I was forced to open my mind. Okay, now it's. Maybe I have to let down my guard, I have to let down my pride or to keep something oh, this is mine. No, let it go like it's the world. You belong to the world if you put yourself on social media and also don't take it too personally. But, you know, also be a part of the community that's happening online, because sometimes, as artists, we have I'm high on this throne. Of course, we're like, we're amazing, we're creatives. Also, be, you know, open to collaborate, open to take inspiration, and also people are going to get inspired by what you're doing, without stealing your content, of course, but don't be too proud. I would say, don't let the pride knock you down.
Speaker 1:Two, questions to wrap up. The first one is you went viral. You had I don't know how many millions of views, which is crazy. Went viral. You had I don't know how many millions of views, which is crazy. Do you feel you've had that moment of? I have made it at some point?
Speaker 2:in the sense of, because my goal has always been with dancing to to get respected as a dancer and not to be become famous. And then now I've become like niche famous. That's been a it's been a treat to be like all right, like many people are now like validating that I'm pretty good at what I'm doing, so that's, that's a big ego boost. Of course, money-wise, making money directly from the platforms or doing like big collaborations with brands is not where I'm at yet. I'm working towards it in my own pace, but so money-wise-wise that millions of views are not translating to millions of dollars yet, and you can keep that in your head as well. When you see a lot of creators, when they go super viral, that doesn't automatically mean that they are rich or that they're getting super rich. Some do, of course, but many don't. So that's when you have to think about okay, the next step, what do I want to do with this video? Is it just for fun, or do I want to make it more of a source of income?
Speaker 1:So, number one, it's a choice Do you want to make it a source of income or not? And number two, you'd need to figure out what the back end is of how you're going to translate, eventually, these views into paying customers, whether you have merch, like you have a brand now, like you're selling some merch. And then, to wrap up this interview, hannah, what is your mantra and your advice, I would say, for all the people that are on social media? Social media can actually you can have a burnout of posting content, of promoting yourself and everything else. What is your mantra and your advice to everybody that is listening? Can actually you can have a burnout of posting content, of promoting yourself and everything else. What is your mantra and your advice to everybody that is listening?
Speaker 2:So, to avoid burnout, do what actually brings you joy. Talk about the things that you're passionate about. Don't like we talked about trends but don't follow the trends because it's trendy. Follow the trends that you feel like you can insert your passion in. So that's how how I get by, how I get inspiration to, to start to keep creating, because whenever I feel like I'm starting to get like, starting to get the science of burnout, I'm like, all right, okay, okay, I have to dial down, maybe post less. To come back to okay, what do I actually like doing? So every winter I go down into a darker hole and I'm like, ah, I don't have energy to post, but then, at a certain point, I get my inspiration back. I get it through scrolling through my feeds or look at what other people are doing, or just doing meditation for myself. You take breaks to go and find your spark of joy.
Speaker 1:Where can people find you on social media, Hanna?
Speaker 2:Hanna is golden. It's everywhere Hanna, without H at the end, because I'm Swedish. All the platform hannaisgoldencom is my merch shop. I'm going to expand that website as well. Yeah, hanna is golden.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for all the inspiration that you shared today, hannah, and we will definitely keep in touch.
Speaker 2:And guys, don't forget to also check out her t-shirt shop. Thank you, Cindy. Thank you for everything you're doing.
