The Loud Whisper Takeover
Featuring interviews with actors, stunts, dancers, filmmakers, action movie directors, athletes, Krav Maga teachers, acting coaches, and more.
Epic tales of changemakers, authentic personal stories, and top tips about the industry, the podcast is a treasure of knowledge helping storytellers of all kinds on their own journeys, and inspiring people to take action upon their own dreams.
Ever heard your inner voice getting louder and louder, urging you towards a new path? When our inner guidance starts to become so loud, we can no longer ignore it, and we MUST take action... This is often a time when life changes direction drastically. We are literally being called to take that leap of faith, make that phone call, write that script, make that film in other words, time to embrace our wildest dreams, shift gear, and grow exponentially.
Let's dive into the art of listening courageously to our inner compass. Because every one of us is destined to live a grand story and adventure while walking on planet Earth!
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Hosted by Cindy Claes.
The Loud Whisper Takeover
17: Planning the 'Behind the Scenes' of BXL The Movie
The documentation of the "behind-the-scenes" can have a massive impact on the distribution of a film, or creative project! Capturing the essence of the "behind-the-scenes" is planned in bigger productions, yet often omitted in small scale productions due to the lack of ressources.
How can we leverage, organise, get excited, and build community throughout the whole process of sharing the "behind-the-scenes" of our movies and theater pieces?
In this episode, we welcome Yves Ruth, a multi-talented artist based in Belgium, whose journey from dancer to producer offers invaluable insights. I invited Yves after reflecting deeply on the critical moments I missed in documenting the BTS in my early career.
Yves Ruth takes us through his experience of working on "BXL The Movie" as a producer, and the meticulous effort that went into managing artists and producing this feature film. He had a crucial role in planning a creative way of filming the making off of this movie. We also explore strategies for securing funding and maintaining behind-the-scenes enthusiasm over the long haul.
Contact Guest:
@yvesruth
@xuntoldxstories
@bxlthemovie
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Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast. Today we are going to talk about the documentation of the behind the scenes of our projects. Now, why am I doing an episode about the behind the scenes? Well, it's very simple. Actually, I messed up For my first short film. We were so in ecstasy to making this short film happening that we actually failed to plan to document the behind the scenes. Also, throughout my career as a dance choreographer, theater maker, often we didn't have the budget to really document what was happening behind the scenes. So I invited a guest who really made something very special.
Speaker 1:He was a producer for a film and they put a lot of energy, a lot of creative thinking into how they were going to document the behind the scenes of this amazing feature film. Now he is a co-founder of LEAD Live to Express a Dream. He's also the co-founder of Untold Stories, a production house. He's based in Belgium. He has a background in dance and choreography, but also in writing, in theater. Now in film he's also a producer. He's a multi-talented, multi-skilled human being. Please welcome Yves Ruth. Hi, yves, how are you doing?
Speaker 2:Hi, cindy, I'm doing great. Thank you, that's an amazing introduction. Thank you, I feel honored to be on your podcast.
Speaker 1:I'm super excited to talk to you today, to learn and to not repeat my previous mistakes. So first of all, before we start to go into how you created the behind the scenes of this movie, which is called BXL the movie, or BXL the movie that is coming out end of the year, can you first tell us a little bit about you, about who you are as an artist, the different things that you get involved in on a daily basis, what you're passionate about, and so forth.
Speaker 2:Let me do this in a sort of a nutshell and I'd like to entertain myself, because we get in those places where people ask us this question and then we become redundant. I would say that I'm a person that is in love with people, even though it comes with risks, obviously, because you can lose yourself to people. You can lose yourself to people, but that's my driving force in the sense that I'm a very I do. I have this sense of analysis. I like to break down a situation, a character, but not just for the purpose of breaking it down, but so that we can come up to a better outcome or to find solutions. Let's just say it like that. So that's the base of who I am and basically I've been a dancer, not currently a professional dancer anymore.
Speaker 2:Once a dancer, always a dancer, but not as a profession. I enjoy being a choreographer. That's something that stays with me, even though I do it less, because it uses that part of my brain that is about conception and vision and basically throughout my career, what made me jump from a position to another was the respect, but also the questions about the person that was above. As a dancer, I was questioning choreographers because I didn't think, or I didn't know, and I was wondering if it was the right way. So I had to become one in order to understand better, to respect better, but also to know if I was right or if I could do it. And then, when I was a choreographer, I had that with artistic directors, and when I was artistic director I had that with producers and eventually it led me to go from a position to another, to understand better the difficulties of the job, but also it made me understand that I love to do it. Today my main occupations is I do management for a few artists. That's something that unlocked, because some people that I groomed as artists developed into multi-talented artists and they needed guidance. And then they came to me and then we started a journey and then another one came and another one. So that is something I've started. I'm doing production. At the moment I'm still producing in post post-prediction of this movie, but already on different projects, and that's something that is taking a little bit more place in my life. Right now. I still do choreograph some project, mostly commercial ones.
Speaker 2:At the time I am part of the Belgium delegation for the Eurovision. Belgium has two sides, so I go once every two years with the Flemish part of Belgium as artistic director. That's a position that I earned last year with Gustave, who ended up seventh, and I used to do just choreographer or moving director for the Eurovision for Belgium, and last year they actually asked me to be the leader of that team as an artistic director. I've also done it for Belgium, and last year they actually asked me to be the leader of that team. As an artistic director, I've also done it for Holland.
Speaker 2:So at this time there is this multi-brain going. One day, okay, I got to be a manager and then do as much as I can to push my artistic side on the side. I still keep it because that helps me understand my client, but at the same time I have to use my other brain to protect, to anticipate and to yeah, basically because I am also an artist at heart, I kind of absorb everything the artist should not be absorbing and then I translate so that the artist can strive and only get the right information. In a nutshell, that's what I'm busy with at the moment.
Speaker 1:Let's say Thank you for sharing that, because I think your background and your story shows how much introspection is very important if we want to develop our leadership skills and also how you kind of wearing different hats, which is also you know. It's a beautiful testimony of how you builded yourself as a leader in this sector, in this industry as well. Can you tell us a little bit more about bxl, the movie? Who was involved? What is the the narrative behind it? What is the story? Because you were a producer on this project. It's coming out end of the year. It's a massive project because Belgium Belgium is not known to, you know create massive movies, but this is a feature film where there was a lot of effort, a lot of talent involved. So please tell us a little bit more about about movie itself.
Speaker 2:So the project started with two, at first two different screenwriters, and it was going a certain direction. And at some point the producer asked the screenwriters if they were interested to get some script doctoring and help, which they were completely open about. That's when the producer came to bring in Ish Aitamu, who the producer already had an experience with on a short movie. Ish was interested, but he also mentioned that at the moment he was writing mostly with his brother, so that he would want to bring him in. So the story started there.
Speaker 2:They wrote they kind of script doctored in the very beginning, and then it took a good direction and they started to write together and at some point team a wanted to go left, team b wanted to go right, and ishan and his brother they his brother munir they felt okay, that was your project, so we don't want to continue that road, so we would just step out and just finish the collaboration here. But the producer actually wanted to go right with them and they, I do believe, did the buyout of the first screenwriters. The movie took a different turn. The movie is actually now you can only say that it's been inspired by what was for initially the scenario, because it's not the movie at all. At first the movie was about it was actually inspired by the events of the how do you say attentat in English?
Speaker 1:Terrorist attacks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the terrorist attack in Molenbeek in Brussels, and it was really in that environment that we were telling the story. And the movie now is far from that. It has hints of elements, but it's not about that anymore. It's called Bake Cell because it's in the heart of Brussels. It's called BXL because it's in the heart of Brussels. Bxl is a short version for Brussels in French, because it has the X in the word in French and that's how, in short, people call it. We call it BX or BXL and that's why the name.
Speaker 2:So we see Brussels, we feel Brussels, the community that we come across in it and that's why the name. So we see Brussels, we feel Brussels, the community that we come across in it. There is the Markham community, the Flemish community, the Brussels community. We really hear and feel French and Flemish in the movie.
Speaker 2:We follow the story of two brothers, two brothers that deeply love each other and that are living different dreams At the same time. The little brother is supporting the dream of the bigger brother and the story talks about dreams, but also about how dreams can, how your surroundings, how your environment, your community, your culture can come in the way sometimes of the dreams that you have. And the question of is it possible to dream when we come from a certain background? And those questions are very vibrant in the movie because I think a lot of youngsters that come from certain backgrounds and don't know that there are so many outcomes before they get to to get to those places, don't know if the reality of their life would could allow them to dream a certain way or to even believe that there is certain outcomes for them. In nutshell, that's what the movie is about and I truly believe that you can have a deep sensation of what it is to live in Brussels as someone from Brussels.
Speaker 1:And so now you guys are in post-production and you're thinking about your distribution and all of that kind of jazz. How long was pre-production and how long was the actual production? How many days were you actually on set shooting?
Speaker 2:Start with the last questions, the easiest part. So the shooting period was about a month. It was like 24 days. I think the dream scenario would have been 28, to be chill. Of course, you get 30. But with 28, I think there would have been a sense of comfort. And we know and you probably know when you're on set like every second, every day counts. So if you get that one more day, sometimes it means everything. So with those 24 days, we actually managed to come to something that we all feel very proud of, despite the fact that, obviously, when you finish with the montage and you look at it, ah, here you could have an R and this and, but obviously those are the things that you only learn by doing your first, and then it only gets better as you go through the next project first, and then it only gets better as you go through the next project.
Speaker 2:Um, pre-production, from the moment they started writing, which was because of the story I told a little earlier. It took actually five years to get there because there was other people and then you needed to change the narrative and come to okay, now it's the new, the two brothers and from that point on, to come up to that new scenario, which was different to the first one, which already got, like, the support for the writing. Now you got to have a new support for the writing, so the process starts from scratch again. And then when you apply for subsidiary the first time and then they tell you no, but then you got to go for the next time, all that stretches everything I came into play. So if you take that period of five years where I was actually not involved on the project, come now to last year, let's say at the end of the first trimester, the producer was actually okay, we got the funds and now we're going to go for the other funds. Because in Belgium that's how it goes you get the main funds and then, from the moment you get those, you can apply for the other ones. It's like you get validated and now you can apply for all the funds and and people know, okay, the movie is going to happen. Just a matter of time.
Speaker 2:From that moment on, the producer Potemkinu, a Brussels-based production house, flemish production house, was in discussions with the, the, about okay, I would usually work with this producer, line producer, on the project before and during the shoot, but that person is not going to be available. So I'm looking for someone else. I don't have a name in mind yet and one of the directors, who happens to be one of my great friends, was smart enough to ask what was the job description, because at that time, being in the project for five years, he kind of have developed that reflex to go like what is the best for me and to have that one question that might put you in a better situation. So he did ask the question and the producer answered and he was like oh shit, that's Yves. And he was like oh, is that someone from the movie industry? He's like no, he never did movies. And the producer was a bit shocked and he was like OK, is that someone from the movie industry? He's like no, he never did movies.
Speaker 2:The producer was a bit shocked and he was like okay, do you mind to meet him? And he was like okay, no problem. So we met. He called me first. He was like before you say no, because he knew I was in a period where I was trying to take a little less work. And it was like before you say no, this is what happens. Like before you say no, this is what happens. Do you mind to meet. I was like no, of course let's meet and then we'll see.
Speaker 2:And so I met with the producer and, what's funny, this happened, I think two or three times in my life. It's a job interview but I actually don't apply for the job. So they called me for something I didn't apply for and the three times that happened in my life it got reversed. At the end it felt like I was interviewing them, because I know I'm not there to lie. I know what I'm able to do. I can break down any conversation and anticipate okay, what's to come, what can I do, what can't I do.
Speaker 2:Eventually, they were impressed with the feedback, also because I was able to talk about projects that I've done, because they need to know how do I handle situations that involve money? Did I ever handle budgets? Did I handle big teams? And they were actually surprised that on some projects that I had, it is teams that sometimes are bigger than on some of the movies they worked on. So they were impressed and their last feedback was okay, it's actually a great interview. We just still have to think because you don't have experience in the movie industry, so we'll get back to you within two weeks or whatever, say no problem, and I'll let you know if I want to do it. So I think that also hit them a little bit. And eventually two, two or three days later they contacted me and they told me okay, you're the guy, so you just have to tell us if you want to do it and then we can talk about the budget.
Speaker 2:So that's how the beginning of last year started, and then I jumped on the project because it felt right, it's the movie of my one, of my brother, with his brother and eventually, from being that sort of co-producer, slash line producer, slash assistant to directors, because I was really there to protect them from themselves, because you know what it is to be an artist and to have to deal with people that are non-artistic and that you depend on, it's just this miscommunication that sometimes is actually not a problem. There is nothing wrong in what they say. It's just we are on a different frequency and we're not able to hear something that has nothing to do with your artistry or if people value you. So, yeah, in that position I was able to anticipate a few points that I saw. Okay, here there is something that is not fixed yet.
Speaker 2:So we in pre-production had the opportunity to decide to do the casting ourselves, because we were supposed to hire a casting agency and I did interview one which we were very interested in. There was this plan in the collaborations that we wanted. That was about trying to link brussels with brussels and work with brussels-based entities that are young, that are true to themselves and that can benefit the end product and try to make it more relevant than something generic, and eventually we decided that that was us. We didn't know what, how to do it and eventually we did the casting ourselves. I hired my brother, who actually did also cinema school of, to be casting director and I mean we couldn't be more happy with the casting that we have and the gems that we found and that led us to the month before shooting, which was about meeting the whole team and the chiefs of departments in order to understand what's the dynamic of the pre-production of that specific shooting period.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for sharing all these details about the process, because this podcast is about the loud whisper and it's also about claiming our power back as artists and really making decisions that are aligned with ourselves, and I think you shared a lot of things of. There were so many moments where both you and Ish and everybody involved you were checking in with yourself Is this aligned? Is this the best solution we can take? Is this really what you know, what our loud whisper is saying? So thank you for sharing these stories. Let's talk about the behind the scenes. So you had a massive project, let's say, to also archive and document what's happening behind the scenes.
Speaker 1:So my first question is going to be a boring question. It's about budget. Where did the budget come from? Was that a part of the marketing budget? Was that a specific grant that you applied for? How did you finance? Or was that part of your distribution budget? Like if an artist was to say, okay, I need to ask money to document my behind the scenes. What's the best way to find the funds to make it happen?
Speaker 2:There are different stages to the answer. First of all, the question is far from boring. My answer might be more boring than the question, but let's say I didn't have a blueprint or I didn't know all the answers at first. Um, I knew I was on the project. I knew I was on my best friend's movie, which is the best start point, because I was detached enough to know okay, I'm, I'm here anyways and I'm comfortable, so my manpower is already there. Okay now, what are my strengths? In that base scenario where I actually don't know anything? It's asking questions. The producer also wants money to come in, so he already has maybe a few answers that I can go pick in. And then there is what I believe works for myself. So, going into those meetings with the producer, peter from Potemkino, I kind of learned okay, there is a budget from their side which is marketing and communication, and there are those base scenarios that Production House do for every movie they do. That prediction house do for every movie they do. From the moment you get funds, there is a part of that money that is allowed for that part.
Speaker 2:Now it's just a matter of who's in the team to discuss how much and what to do in order to talk about your movie. Because, at the end of the day, what do companies do, old companies. They do a press event, they print flyers or posters or billboards, they buy space for commercials, they shoot commercials. We can break it down quite easily. They do campaigns and then from all the examples we can witness and break down by ourselves, and then it's just a matter of okay, now that you are in the building, how much does it cost? And then, huh, oh, to do a photo shoot, you guys pay 60k. I saw the photo shoot you did last time. It's nice, nice, we can do the same quality. We might not have to use 60K and maybe, if it's 60K for the whole communication but you would have put it only in that Can we break it down into. And then it's going from a meeting to another to see where I can put my hands on some money.
Speaker 2:But mostly because, at the end of the day, I don't think my best ability was when it comes to the behind the scenes. I don't think my best ability was to find money for the behind the scenes or for the communications that we wanted as a team to make for the movie. I think my best ability was to make sure all the quality people from our entourage that believe that they want to be on this project. But if I wasn't there, there was no way to get in the project. Because how many times, cindy, have you been in a situation where you could have been with people you believe are amazing, but it was not in your hands as as an artist to bring in, or you didn't have the knowledge at the time to push so that it would have been them instead of other people, and then eventually you witnessed shit. It could have been better and it could have been better also for my heart, so for having the path that I have.
Speaker 2:I was also in a great position which was not artistic to be that person and be like okay, I know some of my friends. They have work, but they make space and they find the time, but they're competent and I need I need to bring them in. So let me find out how much I can put my hands on, because I know we don't need much to do something not to do the biggest of thing, but to do something. So I've got to put my hands on some of the money and it was very clear I can. I just break down a plan. I'm like okay, we want to communicate about the movie, we want to do this, we want to do this, we want to do stints, we want to. So they, of course. You know how we are, because now the artist comes in play and you come with 3 000 ids, which is great. But at some point you also need to use your other brain and break it down so that you can have something that is consistent, because at the end of the day, there is so much things we want to do, but if you don't have that one brain that always you know, steps back and go. Okay, we all enthusiastic today, but the movie comes out in a year and we need we need to chill the fuck out, because if we don't do that, all the enthusiasm is going to be gone in two months. So this one's going to be on holiday, this one is going to be on another project, this one is going to be depressed and what makes today amazing will feel frustrating. So I think the most important was okay, let's make a plan and give people some responsibility. Let's also break down positions. We're not all doing the same.
Speaker 2:So I had a great person. I mean, I had someone to take archives, videos, so that we don't think every day, ah, maybe we should shoot this. No, just film everything, and then you archive and I'm going to budget that for you. And then I had like a filmmaker to take things that are more neat and clean and always having that communication group to for everybody to remind ourselves, okay, when is, when is the next time it's important for, and always having that communication group for everybody to remind ourselves, okay, when is the next time it's important for that person to be there. Then I had this photographer who was also great at making reels for socials, and that's also something. Sometimes it's about ping pong.
Speaker 2:As we were busy, some people from our entourage were like, guys, what are you doing? It's amazing. I would even come on set for free, and then for me to be the person that I am is like okay, this person is great, we forgot about him. He wants to come for free. I'm gonna make him even more enthusiastic to be here. I'm gonna find money so that he's here for money and now I can plan him for a longer period. So I had him also as a photographer making reels. Then one of the most important person is this graphic designer, who was actually also one of our best friend, yannick, and who was actually like the visual director for most of our project when it comes to put things online and communication, which was easy to have on board.
Speaker 2:If you have this trio, yannick, ish, for us it's easy. It's like you do something tomorrow, I will support. You do something tomorrow, I will support. And I think that base is actually also the core of why it was easy. It's not so much about having an amazing plan or being able to bring the right money at the right place is also because that friendship in this setup was easy to plan.
Speaker 2:And then for me, with my strength, to go in because, for example, yannick I'm going to give you a simple example and everybody has those people in their lives that are great at what they do and that will do whatever you want and they will never ask for money. Even if you plan money for them, they won't make the invoice. They understand that they're going to get paid and they didn't say no, but they just don't make the invoice. So you have that one person. My thing is, I don't care how you are, because at some point I will have to put pressure on you, so I will remind you every day that you are paid. That's very important because, at the end of the day, it's a friendship project, it's a family project, but you need that person that is able to remind everybody hey, don't worry, we, we in this together.
Speaker 2:But sometimes frustration will arise and sometimes we're going to go direction. Maybe you don't want to go and the reminder is we're still going somewhere. We all want to go. It's just not always the perfect direction for everybody. But you committed, and I also committed, by saying I'm going to get some budget for you, I'm going to do this and we're going to get somewhere together. That's the story of it. I'm trying to be as transparent and complete because, as I said, my number one strength was not to know which envelope I was able to put my hands on.
Speaker 2:But now to come back to some of your questions, which is where can you go, find the money? Where, actually, there is actually a lot of grants for that. You can get 10K, 5k, 2k, 1k for parts of pre-production, post-production production also that are related to communication or marketing, and those are quite easy to find. It's just obviously when it comes to the movie industry or theater industry or whatever. You get to ask your questions when you don't know nothing about, which in a lot of cases, I'm never afraid to say I don't know nothing about. But then you just get that one meeting.
Speaker 2:You go to places where people are going to give you the answers quite easily. Some houses are very open for stuff like that. People that plan, do program AAC or do communication for places. If you go to KVS, there is this amazing guy called Sébastien Parizel. You get in contact with him. You go on the KVS website. You're going to find his name. You're going to say, oh, I would love, this is who I am. I'm Cindy Klaas. I did this, this, this I would where to get grants. I was going to get a coffee next week with you.
Speaker 2:It's just this matter of we got to open the doors that we have for one another in order for people like you and me, because we are late when I see how accessible everything is today. If we had half of this when I was 15, call me Spielberg. If we had half of this when I was 15, call me Spielberg. It's just this thing where we didn't have access to anything and we were not in a country that has an industry of dream, just to compare to not to say that America is great, but in that note, you can have nothing and feel like you can have everything tomorrow. That doesn't mean you're going to have it in one day, but the dream feels real.
Speaker 2:Here you have to believe in you, not in the dream. I don't know if you see what I'm trying to say there. I feel like the perspective, something that you can reach towards, is more physical and something that you can put a vision to, and here I believe it's more about you. I've seen other things and mostly it's not from here, but I believe in me and I'm going to push for myself. And then you get in front of a lot of walls here and then eventually you have to do what you do. You got to go to Spain, you got to go to London. You got to go because there is not enough for who you are here. That's what I believe.
Speaker 1:Tell me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're kind of saying is in countries where there are a lot of opportunities, the dream is more tangible because some people have already physicalized it in this world, whereas in Belgium we are very often in the position of we're going to pioneer it here in Belgium because the resources are absolutely not the same. It's a small country, you know, there's less support for entrepreneurship and so forth, so you have to be the one that truly believes in your skills, because you're going to be the first Belgian that is going to make it happen. But we can't say, hey, we live in a country where everything has been tangible, has been made a reality. We've seen it made real in other countries, but not in ours yet.
Speaker 2:That's very true.
Speaker 1:So I want to bounce back on a couple of stuff that you've said about setting up your team for the behind the scenes. Something that really transpires here in the things that you're sharing, is you are a people's person. You really try to find those answers and put a team together that is aligned. You talk a lot about, I think, trust. You know it's a family project. It's based on previous connections, like we have similar values. Trust is important in the collaborative process.
Speaker 1:So you had sort of a department that was in charge of archives film whatever there is to film. You have sort of a department that was in charge of archives film whatever there is to film. You have sort of a department that is focused on film, specific moments which are being discussed in advance. You have a guy that is in charge of social media short sort of mixes, so that's everything is following on social media. You have another department that is about photography and taking photos of behind the scenes, and then you have somebody that is a graphic designer you also talk about.
Speaker 1:Okay, we need to communicate about the movie afterwards and one of the things we need to communicate is this enthusiasm. We need to capture the enthusiasm which you can only capture when there is momentum, like in one year time. You don't live the things the same way, right? Um, what is it when you were thinking, okay, there are specific moments we need to film in the behind the scenes? How did you decide what those moments were so that you would communicate about the film and about the enthusiasm? What was your creative process around that?
Speaker 2:let's just be honest. It's this project is very specific. I hired one of my best friends as responsible for extras, so he's on set every day. I hired one of my best friends, nordin, as assistant. He was second assistant to the stylist, so he was responsible to bring the costume trucks on set every day, so he was present every day. My director is my best friend. It's already three people. I'm producer, I'm almost every day on set. It's already four people Now that photographer and that video maker.
Speaker 2:One said I want to be there every day for free, so that was also easy and he's a friend, so it happened. That happens to make it five people, with each of them a possibility for time to do something. At the end of the day you have all your friends. You end up being seven, eight friends every day on set together, and before because my team for the casting was my friends, my team on set was my friend and in post-prediction and communication team is my friends. So eventually it's not just friends.
Speaker 2:And we can't handle a camera. One of them is a camera guy, one of them is a photographer, one of them is a graphic designer. So every day we get the chance to ping pong one another Every day, we get the chance. If he came with his camera, you don't even have to tell him to shoot. When we're talking he's shooting. And obviously that's a briefing, but that's a briefing. He already told himself when he said I want to be there every day, I want to make reels.
Speaker 2:And then, being blessed by all that, I put up a plan. I was like, okay, we shoot. Now it's October 2023. Within a year, this movie is going to come out. Let's make a plan. I'm going to find partners. I have, with the other things I do, contacts with clients and potential sponsors. Let me try and grab some money there. Then we have some product placement. You're going to see if you watch our reels, they often show this car at some point. Is this thing? Because, um, I was trying to. Basically, I had that collab for the artist.
Speaker 2:I managed and then I entered the movie and I'm like, okay, but that's a movie they might be interested in this. Then I discussed with my producer and I'm like, can I have the breakdown of all the costs on set? And then one of the costs was rentals of cars to bring in the actors, to go for the runners and everything. I was like, okay, how much is it? And then I see the price. I'm like, let me see if I can fix. And then I could fix via the sponsor, free cars. So I was sparing money and then that was those were arguments that helped me and having that sponsor to lower the cost. But then to also say, ah, would you be interested to have the car in the movie? Oh yeah, and how much this is this? Okay, let me see. And then I could get a budget for communication, but then showing also the car in communication.
Speaker 2:So basically, as the days would move, I was always like my brain was always running from producer to manager to communication head, and that exercise, I think, was what enabled me to unlock, day by day, the plan and to review the plan and then to be comfortable about the plan. Because obviously when it's long, you're going to question your plan. You're going to have that meeting where people want to change everything. You're going to say, oh, that was great, I wanted to work with you. But eventually that person is actually not was overselling themselves, so you have to adjust. But then to a certain after a certain point, you're like, okay, I've learned so much and this feels right, so we're going to stick to this and from now on, okay, let's try to to just stick to this, also because of budget, because of course, we can keep on making and making, but at some point the arrangements you made and the money you were able to grab, it stops. And then you got to work with that reality.
Speaker 2:So that's what I did and then, from that moment on, I was like, okay, I have to answer to the prediction house and the money that I grabbed there, to the sponsor and the money that I grabbed there, and eventually, if we want to put some money in, I look at my own prediction house do we want to do extra, do we want to put money in or do I go and seek for other money? So that was my template, and then I would break it down to socials. What is the line that the producer and the distributor are going to talk about in terms of press, in terms of when the first trailer or teaser are going to come out? And are they going to talk about in terms of press, in terms of when the first trailer or teaser are going to come out, and are they going to invest in Gorya shoots in the streets, things that you can't do marketing. There's a lot of things that we've learned and that were possible that you come across. And then from all those elements, you'd be like okay, I'm going to do this, set up a plan.
Speaker 2:Our main force at the end was like okay, we're going to have our line, which is going to be we're going to put up an Instagram and a Facebook. We're going to use the strength that we have, one of them being we have one of our directors that is pretty famous in the Flemish part of Belgium. His voice needs to matter. It's his movie. He has to carry it to a certain point, but he doesn't have to feel like it's only his voice. The movie has to have its own identity and he can support it so that it doesn't become like he has to do everything. And that's how we came up to okay, let's do this big set of movie. Let's make reels first, let's tease people, let's involve because you talk often about during the process, what was the artistic plan?
Speaker 2:Basically, I think from the moment I was on set, I was like okay, you see how much extras we have, you see how much fun they have. A lot of them had a lot of experience on sets. But most of them had a lot of experience on sets, but most of them would say people never talk to us, we don't get to hear a proper hi or goodbye at the end here. Every time on set we would thank the extras, we would say how special they are, we would take pictures of them and then post it on Facebook, tagging all of them. But that's because my responsible for extras knew each and every single one of them and we listed them, because we have more than 300 extras in the movie and we would list each and every one of them and we would add name and everything. Because you got to make the quick claims and then I was like, okay, then add the Instagram, because then we know already when we have pictures we can tag them, because then they're going to repost and then in the comments we know what to say. And I have to make my responsible for extras also someone from communication, because this guy is actually very essential to those people that are also going to attract their own community. If you have 300 extras, that makes maybe 600 people that are going to come see your movie.
Speaker 2:I like to think on little scales because I don't believe I will be responsible for a movie to become a blockbuster. I believe we have an opportunity for everybody that can be close to us not to miss the movie. You know, sometimes we come across our project in life and and we we go too fast and we forget to invite the people that should actually be there. And we perform for those people that are actually the least connected to what we've gone through and the artists that we have become. And a project like this one really gave us and me the opportunity in that position not being the artist, because that's also super important, because as artists it's always too complicated to think of everything to be able to remind everybody about that every single time.
Speaker 2:I think my main quote lately to my team is yes, we applied to the festivals, but now the conversation is only about the festivals, that it seems like we failed. If we don't get in the festivals, can you guys remind yourselves that we are making a movie? That's my main quote. It's like I don't give a fuck about the that we are making a movie. That's my main quote. It's like I don't give a fuck about the festivals. We made a movie.
Speaker 2:Cherry on the cake, let's get in the festivals, but let's not make it our main conversation, and that's the same take I have and had about the communication.
Speaker 2:So every day I would come, I knew I had people that had the energy to do something I couldn't do on myself, when we artists we want to do everything because we don't have the resources, and here I knew I was bringing the resources, which was our people with their quality.
Speaker 2:So now I don't believe we have like the perfect plan or anything, but at least we have a plan and I feel that we are consistent and I feel like, even if it's long, that as long as we stick to that plan, whatever is extra to what we plant is the cherry on the cake, but that we don't have to change the plan and that is those are.
Speaker 2:We had some frictions, um, about oh, it's been a while we didn't post and this and that, because people got excited about what happened in the very early stages of having a reel out and oh, a lot of people have seen it and everybody's excited, but of course the movie's not coming out before a year. Can we calm out the, the horses and and, and you know, be pragmatic and we also don't want to get people annoyed with our project is like, after one year of yeah, they accept, they accept, they accept, is it the smart thing to do? I decided not to think like that. I was like maybe it's not, but it's our first movie, so let's just celebrate for one year I'm gonna regroup it.
Speaker 1:I think it's important what you said about when to post, because we want to post about what we've just done, because social media is something about what is happening in the moment. However, when we have a film, it takes so much time to go into post-production and you need to create a buzz just before it's coming out, not just after you came out of production, which is obviously when that enthusiasm that you're talking about is the highest. But you need to create that buzz a bit later on for your audiences. So when to post needs to be strategic. You were also talking about should we talk about it for a year or not? I just want to mention one example.
Speaker 1:Do you remember the LXD from John Chu Legion of Extraordinary Dancers? So, for those that don't know it, it's a series that John Chu, a director, created with dancers, so the lead characters were dancers. Part of the majority of the narrative was told through dance. But actually that guy was talking about the fact that the LXD was coming out for I think about a year before there was anything to show. So he made the buzz just him talking about how excited he was about it, and I will always remember that marketing campaign because, you know, the LXD became something massive. It's probably now a decade ago or something, but his strategy to communicate was very innovative back in the days. I'm going to regroup what you said before. So there was no particular plan for the behind the scenes. You do, however, make budget available, so you're saving money right, left and center. You bring in sponsors. You make budget available because you know that the behind the scenes is important. You know that that will help communication for the movie. From my understanding, it's the.
Speaker 1:What you were filming was kind, was collaborative and it also kept kind of shifting and tweaking on set while you were going through the process. There was a part of it that was a bit like okay, we're, we're going to do it a tiny bit of guerrilla style. Some things will be very curated for Instagram, facebook shorts. Yes, we're going to give a voice to the director because there is some fame attached to the director, but we don't just want to give fame to you know, we don't just want to draw our marketing based on the fame of the director.
Speaker 1:The movie is actually about community the story of the director. The movie is actually about community the story of the movie, but then also the way you set up the team, the way you did the casting, the way you brought people in was all about community building. So you wanted to also the behind the scenes, to be for the community by the community, and give a voice to the people that we might never hear about, because it's going to have a ripple effect, such as really highlighting the work of the extras and so forth, and give an identity to the movie. Am I summarizing it well?
Speaker 2:Completely.
Speaker 1:Okay. So then my next question is once you're going to start posting these behind the scenes, what is the main message or the main kind of buzz that you hope will be created from all the behind the scenes that you've been filming? Once that comes out, what do you hope to make future audiences feel or want to know more about?
Speaker 2:it's a great question because and you saw, from the moment I heard it made me smile. It made me smile because I don't allow myself to plan or to think about this from the perspective of buzz, because every time we try to do that and I'm talking about my close circle those times have been the times we we actually doubt the most, question ourselves the most, don't understand what we're doing and basically lose the essence of our qualities. And from the moment I step far away from that idea. It doesn't mean that it always succeeds, but at least I feel very close to what works for me Because obviously, time advance, everything changed, people people change. Youth is not the same. Connect people are connected a different way and you don't, you can't understand everybody the same way.
Speaker 2:But I like to apply Tomorrow you're going to have a brand and a client is going to call an agency so that they can bring in influencers, make sure there is buzz around the event. I completely understand, makes complete sense. It's not something I don't want to do. I just don't want to do it in a generic way. I don't want to do it like that. I will bring in so-called influencers, but people that are still close to the product, people that are close to the people close to the product. Because at some point I remember going to events where everybody was amazed. And now I'm going to events where everybody is there to pick the food, the drink, the goodie and go, the drink the goodie and go, and that translates in in that final product that looks glamorous and amazing because, of course, you get amazing content, makers who are going to make you believe that was the event of the year. And the first time and second time and 10 times we've seen that we all looked at it with this. It's amazing, and now it doesn't touch us anymore. It's like let's go to the next one. This has become the normal, so we only want to see the next one and we still need to see it. So I'm not saying it doesn't work, but now it has been anesthetized and it's okay. Who's going to come with the next thing? And I still believe authenticity will always be the next thing. So, from the moment I set my brain because, like you said and summarized, there was no plan at first until there was a plan Now, for example, when it comes to the documentary and the direction it's taking, for me it's like you have like the common way to do what behind the scene or after movie.
Speaker 2:And then there is what do you, what are you excited about when you look at a documentary? Netflix are making amazing documentaries. What are you going to grasp from that? And then make it your own identity. So so in a sense I was like, okay, what is the movie about and what? Obviously the movie is not out, so what can we talk about? That is not in the movie? What can't we talk about and what is the movie about? And at the end of the day we were like, oh, but there are so many subjects in the movie. The movie tackles sports and fighting sports. The movie tackles music.
Speaker 2:In a sense, we had the chance to record the music with a component, uh, jean-luc fave chan and to record at the brussels philharmonic. So it feels grand. Yeah, we were very, very lucky that something else from production side and what we were able to bring on the movie. But yeah, there is an arc of the music which actually doesn't really match with the movie we made. It's really like a how do you call it? It's a genre of movie, it's a film d'auteur, it doesn't need grand music, but we couldn't skip the opportunity. So it was at the end like the enthusiasm again, like yeah, we have the Philharmonic blah blah became sort of a problem when we came to post and watch fits and obviously you have a composer that had made crazy, amazing music, but then you have to fight with him to say, but we need to touch this and this needs to. But that's not how it goes. But that was actually a great experience, even though those moments were not that great. But basically there is this arc of music that we still want to put forward. I was able to sit down with the composer. I was able to sit down with the composer, I was able to sit down with the conductor, I was able to sit down with one of the vocalists who does opera, and then we were able to be at the Philharmonics and to shoot these 60 musicians playing for the score, like authentic score for the movie.
Speaker 2:So there is the arc of the music. There is an arc for Brussels. There is something that is way more neat where I just want to show in that episode Brussels, very silent, no discussion. It's just we're going to shoot Brussels from a perspective that we believe is beautiful, because even though Belgium and Brussels can be gray. It's still a place we love and that's now an opportunity to create an episode that touches it that way. And then there is the fifth one. How was this possible? So it's our internal team, and it's like this episode about these people that are friends and I made a movie together. That's actually for each of the episodes, like, for example, the activism, we have a scene in the movie that is a manifestation in English.
Speaker 1:A protest.
Speaker 2:A protest for women to be able to wear the hijab, and that scene and that person in the movie is inspired by someone we know that we had been in contact before the movie and that has an association that fights for that. Actually she's even in the movie. Now she's not playing her, she's playing the assistant of who she is in real life and then we wanted to interview her and interview her about her work and what they did, how it helped, and then to make this mirror with what we try to do in the movie and the same with the MMR that has a small place in the movie. We also met with the coach of the national team of Belgium of MMA and then he was actually the coach of our main actor in order to get ready for the movie. Eventually we with the whole team went to give two fights of two of the people he trained. We developed a friendship. So it's like real life facing our movie. One of the important sparring partners in the movie in the important fight is actually a real MMA fighter who is actually now growing like crazy from Belgium. I met him two years ago in Cuba. I was like this guy is like Drago in Rocky IV and our actor is like small and this guy is huge. And I remember my director was like, no, he's too big. And I was like, but that's entertainment, that's what we need. So I fought to bring that guy in.
Speaker 2:Eventually we all saw it on screen. Everybody's like that's you. You know, sometimes you try to be too real when you do film, dot earth, but you still have to remember we had the movies. We need to have that spark of dream. So, yeah, that's what? That? That's the angle of the behind the scenes, which is less about shooting the movie, because at some point I think our reels on set were showing that enough. And if we would come again with that in a little documentary, it would be like, oh, it's nice, it's another format, but it's the same. And we understood. And now we know you guys, and we've seen you guys, and I thought, okay, this angle is actually what we'll be missing. It's okay, this angle is actually what we'll be missing. It's oh, we have the final product, but how did you come to that?
Speaker 2:And then we chose those arcs to be like okay, let's talk about those things that we believe are interesting and important. Even though not the main themes of the movie. They are important themes and that's something that now we are entering montage, the editing of this, so that this summer we can share that. But in terms of buzz, it's this thing where, okay, we we contact some instances but at the end of the day, after all these years being in Belgium, I'm like I believe we are stronger with our reach than if we would have those entities that we run behind them and it's relevant. It's not relevant, oh, maybe, and you lose a lot of energy to eventually have it in a way that is not giving you the most strength. And if you just put it out yourself, I mean, we were surprised putting our first reels out to have 20 Ks of of visibility just from a page that was just starting off, just by sharing and having the support of everybody, and to have this consistency now where most of our reels have minimum 20, 20 K views.
Speaker 2:We like, we like, okay, there's a consistency here. There are people that are interested and curious and it is stable and we are smart enough to change the content and to bring new information at times, knowing that we don't have to put too much and knowing that there are moments some might get annoyed and move on and then we might attract new ones. I think it's. It's the journey we believe in and, at the end of the day, now one of the next steps now we're busy with the cast reveal. Uh, starting from next week, I think, we have the poster that's going to come out, and then the trailer is going to come out, and then we have this little documentary.
Speaker 2:Then we we have like a stunt that I believe in from since the very beginning, where everybody thinks I'm crazy, but in my head I'm like, yeah, but I think it's dope that we're going to do the month prior to the event. And it's just this thing of, okay, you have a few ideas and then you just stay steady and you believe in consistency and whatever results you have, like I'm happy. Like I check every comment and I answer to every comment. Just just be happy with the one. Remember that one person is important, because if you just think, oh, we need to have 10 000, then you forget about those little things. So that's, that's where my brain is. So I don't believe I have the perfect plan and I also don't believe in having this thing to apply like in a company, because that's not. Then you don't need me. I'm good to bring in the team, I'm good to lead the team and to stick to the plan.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, yves, because I learned a lot about the thought process behind it. I totally understand that every project has probably their organic way of creating a plan for these behind the scenes, but I think you shared a lot of gems about what went through your mind and how you sort of approached it in various creative ways, so I feel very enriched after this interview. So thank you so much. If people want to know more about you as an artist, want to know more about you as a producer, where can they find you? On social media? Or do you have a website? And as well, is there perhaps a link we can follow to know more about BXL, the movie?
Speaker 2:Of course, on social media for BXL the movie know more about BXL the Movie. Of course, on social media for BXL the Movie, it's BXL the Movie. You can find it on Instagram, bxl the Movie and on Facebook. So that's for the movie. For myself, it's just Yves Rutt. On social media, you can find me on Instagram.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, Yves.
Speaker 2:You're welcome.
Speaker 1:Thank you and all the best for BXL the movie.
Speaker 2:For you too, and I hope to also see more of your work. I've sent you a message recently, and I really mean what I said, so I only wish the best for you.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
