The Loud Whisper Takeover
Featuring interviews with actors, stunts, dancers, filmmakers, action movie directors, athletes, Krav Maga teachers, acting coaches, and more.
Epic tales of changemakers, authentic personal stories, and top tips about the industry, the podcast is a treasure of knowledge helping storytellers of all kinds on their own journeys, and inspiring people to take action upon their own dreams.
Ever heard your inner voice getting louder and louder, urging you towards a new path? When our inner guidance starts to become so loud, we can no longer ignore it, and we MUST take action... This is often a time when life changes direction drastically. We are literally being called to take that leap of faith, make that phone call, write that script, make that film in other words, time to embrace our wildest dreams, shift gear, and grow exponentially.
Let's dive into the art of listening courageously to our inner compass. Because every one of us is destined to live a grand story and adventure while walking on planet Earth!
Headphones on, notebooks out, and buckle up!
Hosted by Cindy Claes.
The Loud Whisper Takeover
14: Pursuing an International Acting Career: From Small Town to Big Screen
How does an actor from a small country make it to the international market? Do you really have to live in the big cities in order to make it?
Tune in to our conversation with Ruben Francq, a Belgium-based actor and acting coach, who shares his journey. From teaching to acting in commercials, films, and series, Ruben reveals the challenges he faced and the strategies he used. Learn how self-tape auditions have revolutionised the industry and the crucial role his dedicated agent played in building a successful acting career.
Ruben worked on international sets, and talks about the cultural contrasts between American positivity and Belgian modesty as he recounts one of his major film experiences. Embracing compliments from his American colleagues transformed his confidence and performance.
Additionally, get tips on how to prepare for auditions with minimal information, focusing on script analysis, and making every small role count. Ruben shares valuable insights on navigating auditions and the art of standing out while staying true to the text.
Ruben also discusses the hurdles faced by actors who didn't follow the traditional drama school path and the significance of working on student films. Learn how creating your own opportunities and diversifying your identity beyond acting can provide financial stability and emotional balance.
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Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast, where we talk about intuition and really surfing on this roller coaster that life is about. We talk to artists and athletes, and today I have Ruben Frank as a guest. Hi, Ruben.
Speaker 2:Hi, cindy, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:So, Ruben, you're an actor and an acting coach. Please tell us more about what you do right now and how you got there as an actor, as an acting coach.
Speaker 2:So when I was young I wanted to pursue acting fully, but I was raised in a very flourished household and they were like do something real. So I became an actual teacher first. So I taught English and PE. Then I decided to actually pursue acting. I did commercials and whatnot. Then I started getting more training, not in drama school school, but workshops with certified teachers who are literally experts in their field, and then that's how the ball sort of got rolling.
Speaker 2:And then I got cast in shows and short films and I said commercials and at some point I realized that I had a very outspoken opinion about acting and I wanted to sort of, um, I want to teach that idea that I had about it to other aspiring actresses. That's how I got into the acting coaching, acting teaching business, which is also a fun way to keep the acting going when you're not having any auditions or bookings, or because you're always just working on the crafts maybe not yourself, but you're always involved with it. So that's what really, uh, draws me to to that place. And also I like to help people. I really do love working with people and help people achieve their dreams and goals. If I can be just a little part of that puzzle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so so rewarding so, ruben, you are a bel-based actor, but you work internationally, and today we're really going to focus on what it means to build an acting career when we are living in a small country, or maybe not the main city, but how we can still navigate the industry and even go internationally, even though we might not be in the hot spot. So how do you navigate that, living in Belgium and still working internationally in the UK and so forth?
Speaker 2:It's hard in the sense that, like I said, we are a small country. The main bonus or the main positive or big drawing card that we have is the fact that we are a country that's really in the middle of everything, if you're really looking at the map. So center of Europe, there's a lot of co-production coming in from the UK and then US. So there's a lot of opportunity if you speak the languages. And I feel like that's for many actors. I know the challenge. We have many great actors but we have a small industry here in Belgium. So if you're not part of the, I don't want to be that guy, but if you're not part of the clique or the little group, it's very hard to get jobs here in Belgium, whereas with the co-production thing, I feel like internationally you have more of a fair chance. If your agent gets your auditions, then again it's pretty difficult because you have to compete against native speaking actors who also have had training.
Speaker 2:So it's really about for me it's about how many languages can you speak really well, to the point that it sounds like you're a native, because that's what you're going to be doing. That's how I built my career. I don't like to call it a career, because I don't feel like I don't know if Boston City or whatnot, but that's how I managed it and that's how I got my agents because I have very solid mastery of English accents, both American and British. So that's mainly the thing, because it's tough in Belgium, I feel like, especially because it's such in belgium, I feel like especially because it's a small market. So to me it was a logical step to go international because of my languages. But it's if you don't have that, it's hard for sure can.
Speaker 1:Can you just clarify is your agent in belgium or is the agent in the uk, or do you have different agents?
Speaker 2:no, I have one agent. My agent is based in belgium as well, but he works internationally and that's just because the industry has evolved right. It used to be that you had to have an agent in london or la or wherever, but now, with self-tape being the main thing, doesn't really matter where you are. The agent has to be connected to people in the industry and I feel like my age really is, and I've had this discussion with people from spotlight and whatever, and they all confirm that alana, my agent, they love him. He is such a hard worker, he really fights for his talents, for his actors, and he does all the right things. So I have a tremendous amount of faith in my agent and I feel like he does a great job. And yeah, it's just international castings. I've got more international castings through him than I've got dutch or belgian castings in the last two years. So for me, I couldn't care less if he isn't based in uk or us. He gets the same calls anyways.
Speaker 1:So so you're saying that there are two things, especially coming from belgium, that really defined your success or the possibilities of you opening doors is number one, having a good agent and number two, speaking the languages. How many languages do you speak? Which languages do you speak, and are you a native in those languages or did you do any sort of accent reduction?
Speaker 2:So I've worked in four languages. Yeah, no, I mean, they count them now as I've worked in Dutch, english, french and German. Yeah, so I've worked in Dutch, english, french and German. Yeah, so I've worked in four languages. I'm fluent in Dutch and English. French is okay. If I have a script that I can work on it with some accent coaching. I'm really solid. Same with German, but German is sketchy at best. But I have worked a lot in German, actually because I have an ear for actions. I, because I have a near for actions, I get by.
Speaker 2:I'm not a native speaker in either of these languages, except for Dutch, but I have trained. I did teacher training, right so, and I studied English there. So we had extensive amount of training there in the British accent. So that's where that came out. My American accent is there because I have a near for sounds. I have a near for actions. I grew up playing basketball and that's a very American sport, so I would always watch YouTube channels, interviews and basketball games and everything was American-American. So that's where that sort of happened. And I'm also this nerd who likes to look up accents and tries to mimic those and get good at them. So in many ways, I was self-taught in terms of how accents work except for the English, the British one and now I also teach people how to get there, how to speak in a solid RP British accent or sort of a general American one. But I'm not a native speaker. However, I do fool people every now and then.
Speaker 1:So I know that one of your recent highlights is that you were casted in a feature film called Bonhoeffer, which is an international production in the UK. Tell us more Like was there any sort of difficulties to overcome to get casted for that? Was it easy? Was it a for that? Was it easy?
Speaker 2:Was it a smooth process? Was it?
Speaker 1:like a rollercoaster. Tell us more.
Speaker 2:That was an interesting process. It was a co-production between Ireland, uk, us, belgium, so a lot of moving parts. I got called in for an audition to play a certain character. They gave me a scene, but I didn't know what I was auditioning for. I had no idea what it was. I knew it was a movie, but I didn't know who the director was and didn't know what the story was. I just had to go on instinct, so I did.
Speaker 2:This is one of the things that I am passionate about as well as an actor is seeing you study script analysis based on the little things you have. So I was able to piece together a lot already. Then I was in the waiting room for the audition. I was in Brussels, I was in the waiting room and I had no idea who I was auditioning for. I asked if people in the room knew it, and they did know what I was auditioning for and they told me it was Forgotten Spy, because I was the working title at the time. They later changed it to Bonhoeffer. I asked who the director was and they said Dr Manicke. And I was like who the hell is Dr Manicke? Like you don't know? I'm like I don't know. So I looked him up on IDB and he is this huge American director. He worked with Tom Hanks. He worked with, he wrote Sully, in which Tom Hanks plays the captain, and he works with Sean Penn. Sean Pendleton, you worked with such amazing actors. I was like, oh shit. So they gave me butterflies.
Speaker 2:So I walked into the casting room, did the casting for the character that I worked for, but I did not On the spot. The casting really gave me some more lines to do for other characters as well. So that was tricky and it taught me a thing or two. It taught me to be quick on my feet. I'm blessed in the sense that I learn lines really fast. I have an easy time picking up lines. But it made me, as an acting teacher, shift folks a bit and incorporate that element in my teaching as well, to prepare actors to read quickly and to quickly pick up new texts or unseen scripts that they just have to do, because that's how casting works.
Speaker 2:Straight enough, because I was bashing on in-person auditions. That was not in the person audition, no self-taught required. So the casting process was yeah, it was definitely interesting, and then I got cast in it. I had to go to spa for a couple of days to shoot some scenes there, and then I had to go to Ireland for three days to finish up the shoot. It was really cool, one of my biggest highlights, as you said it so well, recently. Even though it was a small part, it was just a small speaking part my character is called another prisoner. It wasn't that I had a big part in it, but that was definitely cool. I had my own trailer and everything. So it was just ah, this world.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's wild to have your own trailer.
Speaker 1:So a question, because I have had the same. I've had similar experiences as an actress, like doing auditions for roles or bigger roles that I'm used to, and sometimes I had information about who the director was and stuff, and I did research. I'm like, oh my gosh, this is huge. And then sometimes I had no idea what I was casting for. And then I got the role and I got on set and I had no idea that I was actually like moving with big people. So when you were on set for Bonhoeffer, now that you knew that the people that were involved were people with a lot of experience and stuff, did you do your research before or did you just go on set with a very innocent, open heart and just thinking I'm going in and that's it?
Speaker 2:I was so ignorant and so innocent because I knew it was Todd Kraman, that's all I knew. I hadn't seen a call sheet yet either, until the last day, uh. But then you're focusing on your scene and you have to shoot and everything. So you get the call sheet and I just check where I have to be and who is who. I didn't really look at, look into anything, I didn't really do any research, I didn't really have time for that with travel and everything but. But so I was very ignorant and very innocent coming on set.
Speaker 2:And then I got on set and, yeah, it blew me away, because you have producers that are wearing Marvel and DC hats. They were on those projects. You had a DOP, john Mathewson, who had filmed Phantom of the Opera, gladiator. He was a goddamn DOP. I was like what? It totally blew me away. And it was also my first time working with Americans on a professional film set and that was interesting as well, because, yeah, americans are very positive people, but to the point that they, as a Belgian because we're very modest, we are very we don't like to brag they will tell you how great you are 10 times in a minute. You know what I mean. And it felt so forced. It felt so fake at first because we were not used to that at all. But then I spoke to the director's assistant. She's also an actress in New York, she's also in Meisner or whatever, and she explained where that comes from. She's like she explained this way we are working on a multiple million dollar project.
Speaker 2:We don't cast people we don't think are really good. So if we say you're good, you're, you're good. That's the reason. That's the entire reason why we chose you, because you are good and having that explained to me and then having that experience and how they treated you, it just really liberates you. You don't stress at all about anything. You're not worried about your lines, you're not worried about am I good enough, am I right? Because they give you all that confidence. They give you so much confidence in the world. They give you so much confidence in the world.
Speaker 2:So, even though it was a very big production the biggest one I've had done at that point it felt so easy and the director I mean Todd was so nice. Even though I was one of the smaller parts, he went out of his way to come and talk to me, have conversation, joke around and then, when I had to shoot my scene. Talk to me about the character and how I saw it, how he wanted to have it, and I just felt so at home. And that's because of the American approach, because of the they just, they just load you up with confidence. It's interesting, yeah, so that was, that was really cool. But no, I was, I was a very unaware of who was working on that thing.
Speaker 2:It was just this rollercoaster of oh, oh, that's a face, oh, that's a face. That's a face too. Oh okay, it was wild.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's funny first thing I want to bounce back on is you said, like somebody told you, look, we only cast like good people here, and I think there is a power in receiving a compliment, because a lot of people might also brush it off. But actually the fact that you were open and you were like, yeah, I'm gonna receive this, so that it, you know, it, fuels me.
Speaker 2:I think that's really a beautiful thing and I think, as artists, you know, it's important that we do that yeah, it's hard to do it though I'm really bad at that still, I think a lot of that has to do with you're always your own worst critic, uh, and you want to be better and you always want to be better. So if people tell you that you're good, you tend to not agree with them because you can be better. But it really helps to just accept a compliment, as you said it. But a lot of that is our Flemish background as well. We don't typically do that. We want to be modest, and a lot of times when people give you a compliment and you accept a compliment, it might come across as arrogance or rebellion, and that's something we just don't want to get across.
Speaker 2:It's been a work in progress, for sure, the accepted compliments, but yeah, in that moment it really helped. But that's also just the American way of doing it. They'll tell you so many different times, so many different ways, that at some point you just can't help but accept it. It becomes, you know, they just take it out of your hands in many ways because they just keep telling you this. I mean, at some point I was doing something and Todd just came by. He looked at me, the director did, and he was like you're a childhood cat and he just walks off these little things from the director of that film. That's amazing.
Speaker 1:That just shields you with confidence, right, they're socially cool, for sure. And I want to go back to, obviously cat you know, getting casted internationally and obviously sometimes there are like really big people working on that project and we just didn't know them or they're just not part of our circle because obviously we might be networked locally or in our country or the neighboring countries and not in other countries. So you go into a casting you don't know anything about the director, the writer, maybe you know the other actors. How are you the best prepared in your opinion? Is it through script analysis, just working with what you have? Is it doing extra research? Like now that you have that experience, like, what's your take on it?
Speaker 2:I'm a big text guy so I like to work off of scriptysis a lot. Even if you have just one page of a C, you can find out so much about what you're doing in that C. I'll give you an example. I got cast not too long ago in a British TV series called Bookish Small part. They didn't really give me any information to go off of at first. The only thing I knew was it's in the 40s, it's london and it's a crime thing. That's all I knew. My character is pretty small. I got that the the lines is three lines, literally three lines, and I. That was going to be the only scene that I had as well, but with that little scene I was able to deduce so many things about the show that I was able to put in the audition and I think that's why I got the the pardon.
Speaker 2:So I really believe that there's so much on the page. If you're willing to look, you know how to look in that sense. But this reminds me of um ellen poe, for example, the writer. He was a writer who was big on the idea that every word on the page has to propel the story forward. If it doesn't propel the story forward, it doesn't have a place on the page. So in that sense, everything the writer has penned down has meaning. You just have to find it. So that's one thing, but also, at the same time, you want to have your own sort of interpretation to it, because it's one thing to do with the writer and the director.
Speaker 2:You expect you to do but everybody will do that and the hard part is how do you stand out? Everybody's given the same given circumstance, everybody's given the same material. How do you stand out? And that's really the hard part, I feel, about acting, because acting isn't your job. Your job as an actor isn't to act. Your job as an actor is to audition. It's getting good at auditions and then when you get the job, that's playtime. That's as reset, it's cool. You just get to play around in sandbox. It's really auditioning. So for me it's text analysis and when you know who the director is, you can look up some things. But usually you have so little time that I don't really focus too much on that aspect. I try to just work with the scene, the lines and what is the situation that we're having to play. That's what I tend to do.
Speaker 1:I'd love to bounce back on that. First of all, I absolutely love what you said. Working as an actor is actually auditioning, is getting the job, and then, once you've got the job, it's playtime. And it's so true. That's probably the easiest part, because you can just dive in and you have time to really expand and let your creativity take the lead. I also want to bounce back on the fact that you had three lines, because I think that, as actors, I think there was a bit of a challenge is that when we go to an acting school or we train in acting, we receive long scenes and so in that scene there is an arc and your character is changing, and then when you audition for the first roles, you audition it's small roles and you have literally two, three lines and you're like how am I?
Speaker 1:you're like, how am I gonna? How am I gonna find an arc in these two or three lines? What are your tips, your top tips for these? You know, because we're gonna do probably a hundred auditions because before we land like a big role, right that type. What are your top tips for actors? You have two, three, four lines to make the most of it yeah.
Speaker 2:So the coastal roles, as they're called, are the ones that are going to at first be your bread and butter. Sadly, you have to do them. It's the hierarchy of the industry. You just have to work your way up and sometimes you get lucky. Some people get cast off the street into big roles. That is one of the million that doesn't happen a lot, sadly.
Speaker 2:What I would tend to do, or what I always tell people, is find the situation you're in. If you can convincingly do what's on the page, really do what's on the page in the right setting and circumstance, you will be believable. So that's number one. Find out what you're doing, where you're doing it, why you're doing it as a character. Because to me, a lot of people focus on character way too much. They want to make the character stand out, but in an audition they only had You've seen the audition, let's say, two days before the deadline. In those two days you also have other things to do. You have work to do. No way that in these two days you're going to find a character doesn't happen. Character is is born over months. So I I always say don't focus on character, just make sure you know what you have to do, do that really so, if, if you really do something on set or on screen or on whatever you're believable. So that's number one. Now number two find the nuances.
Speaker 2:As I mentioned about the audition that I did, I just did. I read through the lines. I knew sort of the the time they were playing in it was the 40s in london. I had an idea and I knew that was interesting, because in the 40s in london London, I can't really say too much about it yet, but in that time in the 40s in London that was very illegal and he's working with the cops. So that gave the scene some life, some drama, some dramatic tension, because it's illegal and he's working with the cops. That was my take on it.
Speaker 2:I found that and if you have what you're doing and you're making that real and then you add that top layer of intrigue, that's going to make you stand out, I feel like you want to have your character feel like you're a real person. That's the idea, because your character, even though it's only three lines and they walk in the scene, they have that moment and they walk out. They've done things before that scene, they're going to do things after that scene. You want to have that idea. You want to have that feeling of oh, this person has something to do and they just happen to have a scene with this person now, awesome, great advice.
Speaker 1:Thank you I try. I want to go back a little bit in what you said previously about obviously working, being based in Belgium and being a working actor. You said there are some cliques and I feel the sense of cliques do exist and are very present in small cities, small countries where the industry might be smaller. What has been some networking tips that have worked for you to sort of break the eyes or open doors?
Speaker 2:I'm the worst person to ask because I am so bad at networking. It's, I mean, it's ludicrous and people are always surprised. I'm a very sociable guy. I really get along with practically anybody. I have no problem talking to people. I just hate networking. And the reason why is this?
Speaker 2:Anytime you go to a networking event, I just can't shake the feeling that it's fake. So let's say, for example, we're in a networking event, right, I'm a director. Hypothetically, I know that you're an actor. You're gonna approach me, not because you like me that might be true because you need something out of me. And that idea of I need something out of you, so I'm gonna talk to you, i't like that. That's why I'm really bad at networking. I have to get better at it, especially in a small country like Belgium, because that's really how you get ahead in the local market and community here, because I don't like to talk about the clique or whatever. But there are these actors and they're family actors. That's something I want to make very clear. They're great, but they're the ones who get all the jobs, because of many things, many different reasons. But it's really hard to crack that sort of group to get in there, mainly also because I didn't go to drama school. So I'm not, I didn't come from the traditional sort of channels, I just forged my own path, or I'm doing that, and is that?
Speaker 2:That's also harder because typically casting directors here in belgium, I feel they go to showcases the bachelor students at casco, whatever they perform their, their final, their exam, and casting directors go and check that out. Obviously because these people have been working hard for three or four years. You, they want to get into the industry, they want to work. It's almost ludicrous to be mad about that. Of course I want them to work. They've worked their asses off for three years studying their asses off. Of course they should work, but these casting directors they also don't have that much time so they won't say I'm doing a play, the chances of them coming to watch my play versus the showcase of this drama school. I don't really have to explain that they're not going to show and that's hard.
Speaker 2:It's really hard to get noticed, to get on the radar, because as an artist you have to believe that you're good and I do think I am a solid actor. You still have so much to improve upon, sure, but I feel like I'm competent, but it's hard to be able to show that, especially then. You know this is a. You know have three lines makes it even harder to showcase your talent or your capabilities. So that's something I really struggle with and I know networking should be something I really have to focus on more. I know I should go to film festivals more talks, to panels too. I tend to network best on set.
Speaker 2:When I do have a job or I'm doing a cast on something, I just want to leave a good impression to the people on set the director, but also, most importantly, I feel like, the people who are part of the crew in the less glamorous sort of position. So not the director, not the DOP, the producers, people who work on set, work on catering, the guys who do the lights sound guys who work on catering, the guys who do the lights sound guys. I want to have a very professional and likable sort of image when I leave set. That's what I want them to remember me by.
Speaker 2:And student films, as cliche as that sounds, the young students of today are the David Lynch's of tomorrow If they remember how nice you were to them by helping them out and being professional, being flexible and being just a nice person to work with and then you were able to perform relatively well. They will remember that and that's also how I get. That's why I keep doing it as well. You never know. One of these seeds that you're watering as students are. I can just call them seeds. One of these seeds might just blossom into this big-ass tree, and if I can be on one of these branches, that's cool.
Speaker 1:And you said something really important that you actually network when you are on set, because I think sometimes we see our networking opportunities only as the festivals we go to those. You know those panels, those. You know what is being advertised as networking, but actually it's while you're on the job, while you're taking class, like just being in the industry, and then people see you shine because, at the end of the day, here you are expressing your creativity and that's where you network as well yeah, I totally agree because, as I said, I feel like these network events are fake as hell because everybody is trying to project an image of how they want to be perceived, but on set, you are the realest you as an actor.
Speaker 2:You have to be so vulnerable and so real on set because that's the only way you're gonna you're gonna perform and you're gonna you going to portray a person that we don't believe in. So you have to be vulnerable and that's when your true self shines through. But that's why I like to network on sets, because everybody is their true selves. No one's pretending to be someone they're not. It's pretty honest. That's why I prefer that. But that's also a catch-22. It's like one of these things you have to have experience to get work, but then you also have to work to get experience, and so in order to get on sets, to network on sets, you have to have worked. So that's the hard part as well Getting on set, getting a job, getting booked. That's why auditioning is the job.
Speaker 1:Precisely, but also, like you said, even being on set with some students. You're not working like, you're not being paid per se, but you're still doing the work and it's still an opportunity to network, because they are the directors of tomorrow, the writers of tomorrow, the DOPs of tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and I've also worked with people in the past that I'm now collaborating with as professionals. I'm also writing multiple fiction projects at the moment and the people I'm working with, these contacts, all came to be on set. A writer that I met in an audition room I didn't get the part there were students writing on that film but I remembered her writing, I thought it was great. I ran into her and I was like yo, maybe we should write something. The director I'm writing with Tobias Zeru, a wonderful young creative. I worked with him on a commercial years ago and then we bumped into each other and like, hey, maybe we should grab a coffee, and then that sort of started happening. So it's the connections that I've made on set that are helping me now, more than the connections I've made on film festivals or inserts. As you said, it's a funny business where we perceive networking as the events and we forget to network on the day that we actually get to work. That's true.
Speaker 1:Let's move on to some of the moments that have really impacted your journey. You told me that you read a book the Intent to Live.
Speaker 2:So tell me how it changed your life.
Speaker 2:So the book the Intent to Live was recommended to me by Stephen Stephen Bidmeier. He's a Meisner expert. He is maybe one of the teachers that has impacted me the most in my work and he recommended me this book, the Intent to Live, by Larry Moss. Larry Moss is an acting coach in my work and he recommended me this book, the Intensity of Life, by Larry Moss. Larry Moss is an acting coach in the US. He's worked on. He's worked on the Great Mile, for example. He helped create John Cofie with the actor, and then he's and the writer of that book.
Speaker 2:He worked where he studied under Meisner, adler, strasberg, hagen. He studied under all the greats when they were still alive. So he had this unique position in a sense that he was able to sort of distill his own idea based on all these ideas of the great American masters. And then he wrote a book and I read that book and I just fell in love with it because it really affirmed or confirmed a lot of my own ideas about acting. It's a great book. I just can't get over it, how great it is and a lot of my ideas on how acting should be approached. I learned from steven. I learned from that book, but also from Michael Magota, of course, but the idea that text is everything, the script is everything and when you are in doubt and struggle you have to go back to the text. The text is going to inform you on everything. That is what I really. That book hammered that home in my brain for sure.
Speaker 1:Tell me about one of your moments where you were hitting a low in terms of fears, doubt, but you were hitting a low and you were able to overcome that as an actor that's hard because I feel like there's always lows because it's such a scary business.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I was doing a lot of commercial work. Two years ago I was cast as the returning returning face of a dutch telecom company called kpn. I was doing a lot of work and I think I shot five commercials in one year, commercially, paid a lot of money. So I was on high. Then the year after I got next to no castings. Auditioning, auditioning kept. I kept receiving a no, they were rejecting me for all sorts of reasons and then also the commercials that I was doing the year before weren't happening anymore.
Speaker 2:So I hit a real big low and I had to really start thinking. I was already self-employed at that time. I was a freelance actor, that was the only thing I was doing that and teaching as well. But everything was acting. All my eggs were in one basket.
Speaker 2:What got me out of that was I remember my psychologist, my therapist. She told me that I had to get a hobby, because my entire identity was formed around acting. Acting was bad, this person was bad. I was really struggling with that. I went and pursued different things so I got into personal training. So I'm also now a personal trainer and that's helped me get some clarity. There's more to life than just acting. So I started doing that as well.
Speaker 2:I started working with my acting. I mean, if I went with my action coaching, I realized that waiting for that phone call as an actor is the stupidest thing you can do. So I decided maybe I should write my own stuff. And then I started writing, um, and that's how I got out of that low, because I had a bit more financial instability, because I was doing different jobs as well, but also I was always working creatively on my own stuff. I was talking about, I was writing about things that mattered to me in a way that I could also be an actor in those projects if they ever get made.
Speaker 2:Fast forward a couple of months to where we are now and these three projects that we're writing are. We're pitching them to production companies. That's really cool. It's pretty exciting as well. So if I had to put one sort of sentence on it, how I got out of that low is by creating and being active. Um, and remembering life isn't about the job. The job is part of your life. It feels like your life and to me it really is a big part of my life, because acting is such a I always judge it definitely say acting is not a job or profession, it's a lifestyle, and it was hard for me to sort of add things to that life that were not acting and um, that's, that's sort of how I got out of my low.
Speaker 1:That makes sense yeah, absolutely so, if I. If I could summarize it, it's really number one is taking the bull by the horns, is creating your own opportunities. That's where you we really feel empowered. Even if there are no's that are coming on one side, we're still making the dream happen through our, through our own projects, even though we do need patience, because making a film takes a hell of a lot of time. But then I would love to talk about this identity thing, because that is something I think a lot of artists can relate to. I certainly can. I felt my whole identity was I'm an artist and, basically rewinding, a few years ago I had a massive health crisis.
Speaker 1:I got into fitness and all of a sudden, this fitness element of me started to express herself and I had an identity crisis because I didn't want people to perceive me as anything else but an artist. And I had to kind of break free of that and say you know what? I am an artist, but I'm so much more. And if you cannot, you know, see that my box is getting bigger. You're missing out on life because I'm not changing box. It's not because all of a sudden I add fitness to my things that I become a fitness instructor. It's like I am an artist and so much more. But it was a crisis to go through that and accept it.
Speaker 2:For sure, for sure. I've had a similar phase in life Because I always jokingly say I don't have hobbies, I have obsessions. So if I do something, I become a nut. There's no even ground, there's no middle ground or whatever. No, it's either do or don't, and if you do it, really batshit crazy. Everything has to be dialed in or I don't do it at all. I really understand what you're saying and I had the same crisis, but in that sense it's like you said, you're not changing boxes. You're saying, and I had the same sort of crisis, but in that sense, uh, it's like you said, you're not changing boxes, you're just building a bigger box. If people don't see that, they should step back a couple steps to see the bigger picture. Um, because you can be so many, so many things and I feel like, as an artist, you, the more you do in life, the more experiences you have, the better your craft is going to be eventually.
Speaker 2:And for me personally, for example, because I was about identity and casting and stuff this has something to do with that. I was always considered for the handsome guy roles, especially when I was a little younger and had a bit more hair. I was always considered for the handsome guy role. And then I also had that identity crisis actually, because at that point because I was also doing modeling I felt like I wasn't being seen as an actor, I was being seen as a pretty face. So I had a really big crisis there where I was really rebellious and I would almost I would almost try my best to not get tasked in those parts, just to make a point. I was going out of my way to get these other sort of roles which no one was going to give me because I was just starting out. And then I had to learn and accept that this was also part of who I was and take that and own it, because those are the parts I was going to lose. And that's how I got into fitness as well. I was like, okay, you know what I'm gonna, I'm gonna own this part of me. Okay, I'm a handsome guy, I'm gonna own this, I'm gonna be that because that's also what I am, I defined by this. Only, no, give me so much more. But this is also part of my identity. And then I started being into fitness because I thought that casting wise if they're casting for the handsome guy, look, because I thought that casting-wise, if they're casting for the handsome guy, look, I need to look that part. So I went into fitness.
Speaker 2:First, I hated it. I wasn't a basketball player and I, just, as a field sport guy, you just don't like the gym. That's an unwritten rule, apparently it is, but then I fell in love with that and then, what do you know? I got obsessed so, and then that came along. Am I an actor or am I a PT? No, fucking them both.
Speaker 2:So I feel like you don't want to limit yourself. However, because there's also the other side of that coin, where you, I feel like, sometimes as creatives and this is something I struggle with at times as well because you're so interested in many different things, you tend to lose focus on one thing. Because you have all these different things happening, all these little endeavors, and you end up with so many different things at the same time that you have to focus on that, you can't really commit to one thing fully. So that's also something that I'm learning. Yes, it's okay to do many different things, but the thing that you feed time and energy is the thing that will grow.
Speaker 2:So I have to also think what is my main goal? Is my main goal being a really good PT and an athlete or whatever? Yeah, that's a goal, but what is the main goal, the main goal being a really good PT and an athlete or whatever? Yeah, and that's a goal, but what is the main goal? The main goal is still acting. So that's always something you have to remind yourself of. And I'm writing and I feel like I'm becoming a writer as well. That is something that's happening. We want gold. You want to be a writer? No, to be creative, yes, but what's the end goal? To get writer? No, to be creative, yes, but was the end goal to get to play a character in these things? So I always try to do many things, but I always try to make sure they all come back to the main, to the line, um, to the spine of my, of my existence, which is active I can relate to it so much.
Speaker 1:Like same thing. I have obsessions. So, for example, when I started krav maga, the normal person would do four hours, six hours a week. I went in and did 17 hours a week.
Speaker 1:So I just dive in and I also have to remind myself, cindy, why are you doing it for? Oh, yeah, because you want to be an action actress and it's for your screen fighting skills. So it all goes into the right direction. But it is true, we have to sort of you know, our outside experiences nourish us as actors, but we also have to remember, okay, what is my main direction here, because otherwise we get lost in the forest, kind of thing absolutely.
Speaker 2:But also I wanted to pick in. Sorry that I interrupted you there, so sorry, but about the identity crisis, why I feel like? Because you're a dancer and actress, I'm an actor. Why? Because you hear this identity crisis thing more with dancers and actors, people who are on stage. Because I don't think a musician has their instrument and let's say, for example, I'm playing a piano and the piano is really out of tune. I can then say, ah shit, this piano is out of tune. I should really play this.
Speaker 2:But as a dancer, as a performing artist, where your body is your instrument, you have nothing to hide behind. You are the instrument. If you are out of tune, your performance sucks, and if that sucks, you suck. So we are so directly connected to the craft, because it's our bodies, that we immediately become one with that, and that's a beautiful thing. Also a dangerous thing, because if everything is going great, wow. If it's not going so great, what's the problem? You are a problem, not the instrument. No, you are. There is no defense mechanism. There is no shield in place like a piano or violin or flute or whatever. It's you, and that's a crazy. That's a scary thought as well I have never thought of that.
Speaker 1:and that is so true because, yeah, as a dancer, as an actor, we are the instrument, we are what is being used for creative expression. So, ruben, I want to go back to the fact that you are a Meisner teacher. You have also a background as an actor in method acting, but I know you also talked to me about the fact that you have a personal take on the craft of acting. Tell us more.
Speaker 2:I already alluded to it. I feel like there's an over focus on character, especially early on in auditions. I believe truly this is a Miser principle. The definition of acting according to Miser and Stephen Didmire changed a little bit is acting is really doing under given imaginary circumstances, very similar to what Stanislavski said. So the idea that you have to really do in the given imaginary circumstance is going to lead to believable emotions and whatever. That's what I really gel with, because if you look, if you think of it, this is my idea if you have a script, you have to play this character or whatever. Let's say, I have to play Tom and Tom says these and these things, tom does these and these things and Tom has had that background and has gone through these and these things in his life and X, y, z, all these parameters. If I fully understand that and if I do my research, if I do my script analysis and I move in the scenes in these situations knowing what I know about Tom, ruben does not exist anymore in that scenario. Of course it's going to be there because I'm the instrument, everything flows through me, but the character is born out of actor and script together in that moment, in that situation, because I would ask Tom, I'm going to say things that Ruben would never say. I'm going to say things that Ruben would never say. I'm going to do things that Ruben would never do. So I feel like everything's on the page, always you just have to look deeper.
Speaker 2:One of the things I always ask because I'm a big nut on script analysis the main question I always ask is a one-word question is why? The way I teach my students about text analysis, I'm going to ask them why. They give me an answer. I'm going to say why? Another answer, why I just keep asking them? Because they need to have more whys, they need to have more reasons. The more reasons you can, the more you can peel off. It's like an onion, right? There's so many layers. You have to peel off all the layers to get to the core thing, to get to the core of the scene, and that's what that does, and that's through that work, through the peeling back of all these layers, you find the character automatically. You don't have to do anything, unless, of course, you have a character which has a very specific, um, physicality to them, sure, you have to find that, but if it's a person, just a Tom, or just a son of someone else and whatever hasn't been in a car crash. I know all these actors who are going to. They're going out of their way to find their physicality, but then they forget they have lines and they forget why they're doing what they're doing. I feel like there a why they're doing what they're doing.
Speaker 2:I feel like a lot of people do it the wrong way around, in my humble opinion. I feel like text is everything. That's my aggressive take on it on one side. The other side is, even though you have three lines, michael Margota, one of the acting coaches that I've worked with a lot. He would say this to us God is dead, media is gone now and artists are the angels, and angels are storytellers. They deliver the message. They deliver God's message to the people. So an actor and I always get goosebumps when I say that actors are delivering a message. It's up to you to find that message. And what is that message? I feel like and this is why I'm so passionate about it I feel like stories are there to change people's minds or add to the human experience.
Speaker 2:I feel like stories should lead to conversation.
Speaker 2:It's the way we get people to connect, especially nowadays, where if you're not with me, you're against me, kind of thing is happening. We've lost nuance, we've lost the middle ground, the gray area, and I want to. I feel like that's what your goal should be Find the deeper meaning in everything you do to spark conversation, spark progressive conversation. I feel like that should be taught more, because I still feel a lot of people who get into acting want to get famous Because they like the idea of being an actor and they like to be on film and and that's a that's a fair reason. I'm not judging anybody. I feel like you can get into acting for whatever reason you want, but the, the need that you have for telling stories is what's going to keep you in the industry, even when it's going bad or even when you don't have a job for two years, and I feel like it's that idea, that philosophy of telling stories, of delivering messages to people. That's my sort of very dogmatic take on acting. That's my aggressive take on it.
Speaker 1:I feel like even me. It really hits me like that is, yeah, it's the need of telling stories, the need, yeah, to add a little bit of transformation into the world or or add to healthy debates. That's why we're doing it for, and that's what keeps us in the industry, whether we receive no's for many years, whether things are crumbling down or not. So thank you so much for sharing that, ruben. If people want to work with you as an actor or as a coach, where can they find you? On social media.
Speaker 2:Oh sure, social media. That's the thing. I quit social media because it was very unhealthy for me, so that's going to be hard, but if they want to work, with me as an actor.
Speaker 2:They can call my agent Alain L'Equitin, the wonderful, dear Alain L'Equitin, at Lucky Star International Talent Agency. As an acting coach, I work for ACT Academy. We work in the weekends to provide services for anybody who isn't in a position to go to drama school. It's a camera-based tool, so if you want to work with me in that capacity, that's where you can find me. Then you can find me on Facebook at Ruben Frank, and you can always shoot me a message there.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, ruben, for this super powerful chat. Thank you, thank you for listening to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast and we'll see you in the next episode.
