The Loud Whisper Takeover
Featuring interviews with actors, stunts, dancers, filmmakers, action movie directors, athletes, Krav Maga teachers, acting coaches, and more.
Epic tales of changemakers, authentic personal stories, and top tips about the industry, the podcast is a treasure of knowledge helping storytellers of all kinds on their own journeys, and inspiring people to take action upon their own dreams.
Ever heard your inner voice getting louder and louder, urging you towards a new path? When our inner guidance starts to become so loud, we can no longer ignore it, and we MUST take action... This is often a time when life changes direction drastically. We are literally being called to take that leap of faith, make that phone call, write that script, make that film in other words, time to embrace our wildest dreams, shift gear, and grow exponentially.
Let's dive into the art of listening courageously to our inner compass. Because every one of us is destined to live a grand story and adventure while walking on planet Earth!
Headphones on, notebooks out, and buckle up!
Hosted by Cindy Claes.
The Loud Whisper Takeover
27: Skydiving Fights & Making Action Films
Our host, action actress and filmmaker Cindy Claes, interviews UK-based action filmmaker Nathan Geering.
Nathan shares his incredible journey from breakdancer to award-winning action filmmaker, revealing how he choreographed real skydiving fight scenes, trained with Jackie Chan’s stunt team, and is now in the midst of producing an international feature film. His story is nothing short of mind-blowing. Highlights include:
• Winning over 30 awards for his short films
• Traveling the world to build an international action film network
• Training with industry legends, including members of the Jackie Chan stunt team
• Blending breaking, martial arts, and fire performance into original action sequences rarely seen in mainstream cinema
• Launching his feature film The Lock In, an international production shot across multiple countries
• Treating filmmaking as an ongoing practice of research and development—filming daily and using each project as a tool for growth
This episode is packed with inspiration, innovation, and real-world insights into the evolving world of action cinema.
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Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast. As you know by now, my name is Cindy Klaas, action actress and athletic creative in general in the world of dance, film and theater. Today's episode is going to be flipping exciting because making film is amazing and we start making short films and more short films, but when do we really really take the risk and the big leap of making our first feature film? How can we even set up international collaborations, especially in the world of action movies? Because when we're talking action, choreographed fights, we also talk about having more resources, more time, more budget and so forth. So today I have a guest straight out of the UK, close to Sheffield. Please welcome Nathan Gearing. Hi, nathan, what's up with you today? How are you doing?
Speaker 2:Hey, I'm all good. Cindy, how are you doing?
Speaker 1:I'm really good and I'm excited to have you come here on the podcast to share your amazing story. So let's dive in straight away. So you have a background in dance. You then started leveling up your skills in the field of fighting, you started making films and you have won, I believe, over 30 awards with your short films. So my first question for you is which award has really touched you the most as an artist and why?
Speaker 2:Wow, I mean that's a big one, I would say the award that's touched me the most, probably one of the most recent awards I won at the Urban Action Showcase in New York. Obviously it's one of the most biggest and prestigious action film festivals in the world. Obviously, you have other general film festivals, but they're not necessarily like experts in action, so they may not know the ins and outs and the intricacies and what to actually look for where action is concerned, whereas when you have a festival that is specifically geared to action, you know that the best of the best is going to be entering but also best of the best is going to be judging your work and they absolutely know what it is that they're looking out for in terms of what they feel makes good action. So with this festival in New York I was actually fortunate enough to win actually quite a few awards, but I think the one that kind of stuck out the most was the two-minute warning, which was the best, I guess.
Speaker 2:Uh, fight scene concept, um, in in under like two, two minutes.
Speaker 2:And I won that award for a short film I did called fighting at 12 000 feet, which was basically where you had a two skydivers literally going at it, fighting at 12 000 feet, and it was all done for real.
Speaker 2:There was no uh cgi, no wind tunnels or anything.
Speaker 2:It was all literally, yeah, just two, two professional skydivers fighting at 12,000 feet, and before I'd met them they had never, ever done fight choreography before in their lives I was it was actually the first day I met them is when we did the fight choreography and when we did the shoot, so literally they literally only learned like probably a few hours beforehand and they were up and down fighting at 12 000 feet, and the fight not only happens in the sky, but when you land, the fight carries on on the ground as well, and so for me it was great, because also, it was their first ever short film and they ended up obviously also winning awards as well for being the performers in the film.
Speaker 2:So for me, it really touched my heart that not only was my work recognized as such a prestigious festival, but the fact that you have these two guys that had never, ever done any kind of black action filmmaking before and they were already knocking out the park, uh, winning awards, um for uh, for their first ever film. So I think that one, for me, really did touch my heart so obviously this is an epic sort of idea, an epic scene.
Speaker 1:I've got a thousand questions. Can you maybe summarize it, because it's just so epic? But where did the idea come from? And then how the flip? Did you rehearse? Did you go just up and down like 5 000 times, like adding one move at the time and you're flying next to it? Or what happened in rehearsals?
Speaker 2:no, no, not at all. So how it came about was so, obviously, another short film that I've done called flaming assassin. He's doing really well on the film festival circuit. Earlier on this year it was just as soon as it got put on the film festival circuit, it was winning awards and the skydiver just slid into my dms and he was just like yo, bro, really like what is that you're doing? Have you ever thought about choreographing on skydivers? And I was like, well, I'm thinking about it now.
Speaker 2:It was from there, really, where we had a whole bunch of conversations on the floor. I actually met up with him from when he messaged me, because obviously I live in rather near sheffield and he lives in london, and it was literally within a week of us talking on the phone. I was, I was meeting him down in london at an event basically, and I kind of like I liked his epic because he wasn't one of those people. Oh well, we'll just wait a little bit. He would just like, yeah, okay, you're up for me, okay, let's go, all right, boom. So when I I really love people that do this. And right off the bat he was showing me his name is johnny, he is wicked guy. He was showing me that he's a doer and obviously for him as well. He is one of the only black skydivers in the uk and he's really wants kind of bring more diversity to the sport but also more diversity to stunt performing in terms of skydiving, and so for him that was something that was very important to him, and so we had a chat about each other's values, what it is that we wanted to achieve, and I was like, yeah, I'm sure I can help you with that, we can make this work. So then a few weeks later we met up at the airfield and he'd done some jiu-jitsu before and the other skynar, I don't think he'd done any martial arts before.
Speaker 2:So I basically had to teach them how to do fight choreography, because obviously fight choreography is very different from fighting, very different, and you often find the toughest people to teach are the people that have done martial arts in the past, just because they're taught how to follow through with contact and when they're sparring, when they're fighting, they're trained to make contact and hit people and hurt people, whereas the fight choreography the priority is to keep your partner safe and that's the key word. So it's more like a dance within that kind of context. So I had to teach them both fight choreography and then. So we shot some of the ground fighting stuff, and then they taught me about skydiving in terms of the wind, resistance and things like that and obviously the things that they have to deal with when they're free falling, and obviously there was certain ideas I wanted to try, but it couldn't happen because of safety. For example, if there's certain positions you get into, you have to be careful because you could snag your parachute and if the parachutes get snagged, obviously 12 000 feet you fall and it's game over. So again, that kind of like influenced the choreography to a certain extent in terms of what could be done. But yeah, in terms of the actual skydiving, we did three jumps in one day and then three jumps in another day and each jump was between 15 and 30 seconds long, and so that was all we did and we also had to.
Speaker 2:I also had to teach the, the camera operator, how to stack hits for camera, because obviously he'd done skydiving videos before but he'd never done fight choreography before, so he needed to understand what position he he needed to be with the camera to make the hits look like that they sell. So I had to teach them how to get into position and what's what's free falling, but also because you're free falling at such speed and the slightest move can take you off on a tangent and things like that. So I had to make sure that he could understand, okay, if that happens, how he could come around to the other side to get stacking and hits from the from the other side of things. So we were like, really efficient with our time and it was only just like my other short film, flaming assassin. It was only ever supposed to be a proof of concept.
Speaker 2:It wasn't really going to be like a short film, um, at that point, but because it came out so well, we were like, okay, we've got to make this into a short film. So, uh, that's what we did. I mean, you know, there's one of the only people in the world that's actually done skydiving for real, in terms of no wind tunnels and no cgi or anything. And even when I was talking to some of the jeffy chan stun team, they said that even when they were in new zealand they had to, um, use some wind tunnels and things like that and some cgi, because the skydivers in new zealand were like, oh, it's too dangerous, we can't do that. So the jc stun team were like next time, come to you.
Speaker 1:So that was cool but so can I just clarify those six jumps, where these six jumps filmed each time, or where there are some jumps that were part of the rehearsal process and some that were basically used to make your short film no, they were all filmed so you created the choreography on the floor, like I mean on the ground, and then, but obviously you were thinking about what could be dangerous, but then they just had to try it immediately, but while jumping yeah, it was literally that it was a case of because what we want to do, we want to film it just in case of that, some parts work, that some parts didn't.
Speaker 2:So we needed to see what parts worked in the air, because it's not like on the ground. You can have the luxury of waiting and being like oh okay, let me just see what happens. We're getting to this position. Jump counts, because you can only do so many jumps in a day and also it costs every time you go up. So we really had to make sure that we were making an efficient use of our time and things and you know, in an ideal world I'd have loved to have done 500 jumps, but the fact is we got six and we were able to get what we needed to out there. Six, which is which is brilliant. It was.
Speaker 2:It was really fortunate that we were able to get some great footage on that. But again, I think it was down to the way in which that we planned the choreography when we were on the ground to make sure that, okay, we're going to get x amount of hits. That stack from this angle, x might hit a stack from this angle. This technique has got to be involved and we we'd have like, say, two major techniques per jump and that may be like a jujitsu, uh, armbar, um, as as a full net 12,000 feet, or it may be something like somebody gets hit and then does a full pair of whatever spin as a hip reaction and things.
Speaker 1:So again we had sort of main moments, but then the rest was just stacking hits, and that way we were able to really make the most of our time and then previously you talked about, uh, the fact that you are submitting your short movies, um, on a very specific circuit in regards to the film festival circuit, and that you're sending it to action film festivals. If an emerging filmmaker is making action movies, where can they find out more about this specific circuit? Are you doing specific research on film freeway or is it actually another resource, or did did you just get to know which festivals to send it to because of your network?
Speaker 2:tell us more, yeah, sure, so basically, so it wasn't only to know which festivals to send it to because of your network. Tell us more. Yeah, sure, so, basically. So it wasn't only to action film festivals. I sent it to a broad range of festivals and, like I said, I was lucky that even in festivals that weren't specialists in action, they really loved the film as well. So I was really fortunate within that kind of context.
Speaker 2:But also, that being said, I was also specifically looking for action film festivals as well, because I wanted to make sure I was onto something both in terms of general filmmaking but also specific to action. So I wanted to kind of hit both ends of the spectrum. So what I did was the first thing I did was obviously got on Film Freeway and I searched action film festivals. First of all, I searched a variety of festivals just to see which ones were coming up and which ones had passed. Also, looking at the submission criteria some festivals they want your film to be a premiere, and obviously you can't premiere every single festival Some festivals what pay like in excess of 100 quid for your submission. Some festivals just want a couple of quid. So there's a broad range so you can pick and choose according to your budget. Um, and also in terms of the other thing I did, was I was looking at other people that were submitting to action film festival, other other people that I knew, for example, that had action films and saw what festivals they would submit to, because once I saw that, I can also utilize that as my blueprint for what festivals to lean towards in terms of action as well.
Speaker 2:You can have, like TacFest, toledo Action Film Festival is a great film festival in Spain that people that are doing action films can apply to. You've also got Austin Action Fest, which is a big film festival in Austin, texas. That's another great one. And then, obviously, urban Action Showcase in New York is, like I say, one of the best in the world when it comes to action film festivals, if not the best. So I would say those three should be on your list at the very least. And then, obviously, certain film festivals. They have certain categories, like a lot of film festivals have a category of best actions, so you can look out for that, or some may even have best stunts. So, if you want to specifically look at thinking about, actually there's a film that I have and it has a really incredible stunt be an action film or not, but it has a great stunt, and then again you can put it up for that really.
Speaker 1:And then, yeah, see how you go very important question for you, because one of the reasons why I relate to your journey is that we both reinvented ourselves as artists. You have a background in dance, you were a b-boy, you were in the world of hip-hop, you created hip-hop, theater work, and then you evolved into this world of learning about martial arts and fighting skills and choreographed fights, and then now you're an actor, an action actor, but also a screenwriter and a director. So obviously you've skilled yourself up, like you've been looking for training opportunities, but there is also an element of you know, finding a new brand and making sure that the people around us see us, call us for the new brand that we are creating and the new services and the new skills and talents that we have to offer. We need also a new network to make that happen.
Speaker 1:How did you make that transition? Was it easy? Was it difficult? Did you take specific steps? Because I feel there are a lot of artists that at some point in their career feel that was actually chapter one of what's coming next, but then that transition can be very challenging. How did you make it happen?
Speaker 2:For me it's just like breathing, if I'm honest. So I was actually a martial artist before I was a breaker. So I started off probably about the age of six or seven years old. I started off with Shotokan Karate and then I did some Tang Soo Do and then I did a bit of Shaolin Long Fist and then I stuck on Chun when I was like 18. I've just done that ever since.
Speaker 2:But when I discovered breaking I say discovered breaking I knew about breaking for as long as I knew about martial arts, but I never had anyone to teach me that. My uncle taught me a little bit of popping, but that was it. And then he was the only one went to university when I did a degree in psychology and before that I did a high national diploma in business marketing. So I think they they kind of like stood me good stead for what the future would hold. But so I, at the age of 21, I joined the breaking society at Sheffield Hallam University and I basically started my journey with breaking. And then I was cause. I was, I guess, was, I guess I'm fanatical about whatever it is I'm passionate about. So, for example, just training about eight hours a day at one point in terms of martial arts and stuff. Like whenever I was in college or uni I was kung fuing it up from there when breaking came in, so it switched. So I did more hours of breaking and less hours of kung fu and things, but for me I still did some hours of kung and less hours of Kung Fu and things, but for me I still did some hours of Kung Fu, but it was more so balanced in breaking. But for me I always knew and I always said to myself I'm going to return to Kung Fu this way and I knew that because you have old masters in the 70s, 80s, 90s and 100s that are still doing incredible stuff and you get better with time because you have more understanding of life and philosophy and your body and things like that when the martial arts is concerned, whereas with something like breaking it's like you're, because I did a lot of glow-ups and poundings, I did a lot of virtuosic stuff. Now you have your body has a certain shelf life with with that, and that doesn't mean that you can't do it. I'm still in my 40s. I can still bust out some air conditioners if I need to, but to the same extent that I could do when I was young. I can't, you know, it takes a lot more energy to do the same quality of movement, I think is the best, is the best way to put it. But with kung fu it's like you can just keep leveling up with your energy and things I was doing.
Speaker 2:I was like I was special breaker for the best part, like 20 years, and then my partner, she started to teach me fire. So like fire firing and things like that, so learned those skills probably about oh, five years ago now. So, yeah, five years ago I learned she started teaching me fire and obviously, because I'm a b-boy, break is always going to be with me wherever I go. So even if I'm not like doing it as solely as a profession anymore, if I get a new skill, I'm trying to go upside down with it and and that's just, that's just how it was. So with breaking I, I combined that with fire. So as soon as I was learning the fire skill, I was upside down with it and stuff. I was regarded as one of the top fire eaters in the world because I'm one of the only people that will actually spin on their head whilst eating fire and all that kind of stuff. So, in terms of the skill set, what I was doing, I was carving out unique movements that never been seen before, with fire eating specifically. But I was proficient in other fire skills like fire sword, rope dart which is a Chinese weapon, but you can set that on fire fire staffs, like all that kind of stuff, fire nunchucks. So again, I guess the martial arts was coming in hand in hand with that transition and changeover. And then, where it came to the point where I was like this is what I'm going to do, I'm going to be an action actor and be a filmmaker.
Speaker 2:In terms of, I'll talk about the actual journey later, but in terms of the branding side of things, for me it was all about networking. It really was. Obviously I just started putting more martial arts based stuff out on social media in terms of what it is that I was doing. But it it was traveling. That was it. It was literally traveling to meet people in person. That was what really opened up my network and my brand, because with every place I traveled to, more opportunities came and more people can meet more people. You can connect with people only so much in front of the screen, but you need to feel people's energy in person, to really connect with them, and with doing that, that really allowed my network to grow but also to reinforce. Okay, this is the type of stuff I want to be.
Speaker 2:I wasn't thinking of myself as a brand. I was just like this is what I'm about now, so this is what I'm projecting to the world, because this is who I am. This is my authentic self and so, yeah, I think that was it. It was. It was never. I was never thinking of myself as a brand. I was always just thinking of who am I at this moment in time? What am I really passionate about? That's what I'm going to. That's what I'm going to push forward to the world, because that is me. So I'd always given my best expression as a breaker. I'd always given my best expression of myself as an accessibility innovator and then fire performer and then as a filmmaker. But all those skills that I've learned all over those years, over the past 20 odd years, from being a breaker, from being an accessibility innovator, fire performer it all contributed to me having such a unique selling point.
Speaker 1:There's such a usp when it came to being in the world of filmmaking so you have a new world, like you say, a new creative expression, something that you're passionate about. That's what you're about. So the first step that you did was putting out more content on social media and stuff, so people would relate to you in a different way as an artist. And then you said I started networking because I started traveling. What were the purposes of your travels? Was it to train with stunts? Was it to go to film festivals, like action film festivals? What was the purpose of these travels and how did you find these international networks?
Speaker 2:so the first thing was I guess one thing that I did to expand my network was because obviously I was delving more into martial arts and things. I was looking at who did I already had, for example, in my friends like list on facebook, for example, or my contact lists in terms of um that were martial artists, and then I was seeing who who we had as mutual friends so I could see that way, but also who I didn't have as a mutual friend but I'd research other people, um that they were friends with that were also martial artists, and then I I then add them as friends to to to my networking things. So, again, it really was looking at people that I felt I could have a synergy with and I can have a connection with and would like what I was doing, but also I could potentially learn from them, but also that I would like what they were doing as well, because whatever your awareness is tuned into, that's what you'll get. And so my awareness was really tuned into martial arts. So, like when I was a b-boy, my my awareness was tuned into breaking, so I was just picking up stuff for breaking, but when it came to martial arts, my awareness is highly tuned to martial arts now. So they were the people that I was seeking out in terms of just trying to find your tribe. I think that's the best way to put it your vibe attracts your tribe, and that was it. So I was really just connecting with people to find my tribe.
Speaker 2:In terms of traveling, I was initially traveling to learn initially, so my first ever fight choreography class was from Cynthia Ruffrock. She's regarded, obviously, as the queen of Hong Kong cinema in terms of action and this stuff. So I was fortunate enough for her to give me my first lesson in fight choreography. She said you're good, do you ever get out to the States? I was like, well, I haven't been in quite some time, like since before the pandemic. She said oh well, you know, if you ever get out to the States, I'll put you in the film. She, she's like you got something. So I was like, okay.
Speaker 2:So then later on that year I I went out to be a part of black creek, um, but I was only going out there really to shadow the fight crew for mike muller and be like a featured extra in the film. So I wasn't there to be like the action style in the film. I was there purely to, to learn, to be on the set of a big production and to learn, and so, um, before, so, yeah, so, so, yeah, so, basically that was my reason to to travel to the states. But before I traveled there, obviously, what I was doing from the day I decided that I was going to be an action actor, which was may last year, so a year and a half ago I basically because I basically asked my original child what do you want to do? And he says I want to be Jackie Chan. That was it. So that's that my path off. A year and a half later not even a year and a half a year later I'm training in the guy's home.
Speaker 2:But before that, what got me to that journey was so I was shooting every day as soon as I decided that's what I was doing, shooting every day. So I was just, I had nobody to train with at first, so I was training with my she, now um 13 at the time. She would have been 11, going on 12. So my daughter, she was. I was literally training with her. We were, um, you know, she, I'd prop up the camera somewhere and then I'd be looking at my shoulder seeing what stacks, what doesn't, where the angles need to be, where the gaps were, and yeah, just training with her, training the rhythm and training my editing skills and everything. But yeah, so she was my training partner and then, as time went on, I reached out to some other people because I was always like people, in terms of stunts, are missing a trick.
Speaker 2:Breakers are pretty much the ultimate stunt performers, and the reason I say that is because they learn how to fall in every single direction. Their entire bodies have to not only fall but come into contact with the floor, from the head to the neck, to the ear to the shoulders. We just built for it. So when I decided to train up my stunt team, first people I went to were breakers and I was like, okay, come through. And some of them were like, yo man, yeah, this is a vibe right here. So, yeah, I was able to vibe with some of them, and then I got people that did parkour to be involved as well and some martial artists. So I with some of them, and then I got people at the parkour to be involved as well as some martial artists. So I I got like a group of core people and basically we were training, hip reactions and falls and everything and fight choreography.
Speaker 2:And then I had always had in my mind, like I said, wherever I went I took breaking with me. So I always had in my mind to combine fire breaking and martial arts in fight, because you've had films I've combined breaking and martial arts in Fight for Robin, because you've had films that have combined breaking and martial arts. You've had films that combine martial arts and fire. Not really been many that, or if any, that's combined fire breaking and martial arts. So I was like, okay, I want to see if I can make this work as a proof of concept. So did that.
Speaker 2:And then the proof of concept turned out so good I was like I've got to make this into a film. But I couldn't make it into a film just yet because I had to go to the states. So literally I think we shot that in the at the end of september. I'd edit it first couple of weeks in october and then end of october, you know november I was going out to the states, so I was preparing for the trip to the states. So I was ready, and what I mean by that is when I was going out to the States, so I was preparing for the trip to the States. So I was ready, and what I mean by that is when I was going out to the States. I extended my trip. So I didn't just go to be a part of Cynthia's film. What I did was I was like I'm going to make this trip work for me as much as I possibly can.
Speaker 2:So I made sure I traveled to other parts of the States before and after I went to Benson, arizona, which is where we shot Black Creek. Within doing that, I made sure I connected with people in the areas I went to. So I went to Vegas and then I went to LA and I was fortunate enough, when I was out there as well, I was still able to give like keynote speeches and lectures on all the pioneering stuff I've done with hip hop and accessibility as well. So I was still connecting some of my other work with this trip as well. So I started from Vegas, then to LA, then went to Benson, arizona, then to Austin, texas, then back to LA, and so wherever I went to connect with people, I also showed them this bit of footage just to get their take on it in terms of what they thought worked, what could be improved, if there was any elements that were missing or what I could do to really level my game up, or if there's anybody they felt I should connect with and talk to. So it was really just getting to know people on that deeper level, but there was a lot of people that were really was coming with, sharing knowledge, and they were happy to. So you know those people, you, you know. I can't thank them enough.
Speaker 2:For every one person that said yes to meeting up, I probably had about 50 people that said no or just didn't get back to me, and that's just the nature of the beast. This isn't, it's nothing personal. It's just a case of you just have to understand that some people will be willing to, um, connect with you at this point and some people won't, and maybe they'll connect with me in the future, maybe they won't, but instead of getting disheartened about all the times people have said no, I was hyped about the ones that said yes, and so, for me, my energy is really important to me, and so I really utilize certain positives no matter how small the positive is, as a catalyst to energize me to move forward to the next thing, and I'm always about generating momentum and really building momentum. And because I feel like if you get something great happen, then you're excited about it and then you just let it just sit inside you kind of just fizzles out. Then you have to start again. Not when you ride a push bike and it's the first few pedals are the hardest pedal to generate the momentum. But once you get that momentum going, it's easy and you can just cruise.
Speaker 2:It was the same with me, so I'd always be pushing on that momentum and use, using that positive energy to energize me for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing. So I just keep generating as much momentum as possible and that way way. One, I wasn't resting on my laurels, but two, I was really making efficient use of my time and energy. For me, the most important commodity is time and energy. They're the most important thing. So I was very mindful of how I spend my time and how I spend my energy and that kind of like really led me into traveling as much. I was literally traveling from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth to, you know, seek out the best masters in the game really like an old kung fu movie when they walled the earth to find the teachers and stuff.
Speaker 1:That's me do you have a mentor at the moment as a filmmaker or as a director?
Speaker 2:gosh, I'd say I have a few that I don't know if they cast themselves as like direct mentors, but they're definitely guides and they've, you know, shown me the way in certain things. I would say Andy Cheng, who used to be part of Jackie Chan's stunt team. He was the fight choreographer on Rush Hour 2 and Shang-Chi, the Marvel film. So I'd say, like you know, if I ever need some advice, I'll call Andy up and he'll give me some advice. I would say he Jun, who is the leader of Jackie Chan's stunt team. Again, if I need advice from him, again he's just a phone call away and I'm able to really connect with him and stuff. A guy called Kevin Lee, who was a British guy but he was really successful in China with a lot of reviews and he gave me some fight choreography lessons early on in my career and again he was there in the early days to give me pointers and stuff and point the way out for certain things. So I say people like that philip sargon who runs k-star, and again he's, he's like a big inspiration and again, if I need a hand of anything, again he's just at the end of the phone search.
Speaker 2:There's lots of people that I definitely see, or even though they may not officially see themselves as mentors, I definitely value their knowledge and and their generosity with their knowledge with me. It's like they genuinely want to see me succeed and it's always lovely when you feel like you have people that do generally want to see you succeed. I, and it's always lovely when you feel like you have people that do generally want to see you succeed. I'd say also Bobby Samuels as well. Bobby's another guy, but again, I've asked advice over the past, say, year and a half I've been doing this and Bobby's just given just so much love and respect and things like that. So yeah, bobby's been a big help along the way as well things like that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, bobby's being a big help along the way as well. You had the amazing opportunity to train with the jackie chan uh stunt team. How did you open that door for yourself?
Speaker 2:through traveling.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah didn't you have to apply, or did you? I mean, could you just, can anybody walk in? Or you know how did how did the doors open for you?
Speaker 2:yeah, well, again, it's like I say it's through traveling. I didn't even know that you could train with him. I didn't even know that was, that was a, that was a thing. And then when I went to, like when I went to the states, the first time around it was I was talking to, to philip sa again and he was just like, yeah, you should apply to it, I'll run it because I told him about. So I showed him the fight choreography that I did with flame assassin also showed the fight. You're really good at the Kung Fu comedy stuff like Jackie Chan style and things, and I was like yeah, because I you know he was my idol growing up.
Speaker 2:He goes oh, mate, he's like. You know, I traded his house this last summer. I was like what? And he was just like, yeah, yeah, you should totally apply. So, yeah. So basically he gave me the details and then I applied and obviously you have to submit like a whole bunch of information about yourself in like show reels and everything. And yeah, I was fortunate enough to be like.
Speaker 2:Apparently there was tons of people that applied, but I was fortunate enough to be chosen as one of the top 30 in the world to be selected to train with the jc stunts, I think from there was representation from 19 different countries, I think was there. So, yes, once I found out that I got in, I made the cut. I just had to just train my backside up even more so, you know, to make sure that I represent to the fullest. And then I was lucky enough when I was there. So they have so, jackie, he's known as Dalgur, which means my big brother. So in terms of the actual film world, he's known as the big brother. And so on the camp they chose six dargurs so it's six big brothers to basically lead a different family group, and I was chosen to be one, one of the six dargurs. So again, I was really fortunate enough that they felt that I had that kind of I don't know. I had those leadership qualities.
Speaker 1:Congratulations. It's just phenomenal.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about your leap into making your feature film, because you're recording this interview now, but you're about to make your feature film. A lot of things are already set in place to make that happen. First of all, how many short films have you made so far? I know you've won more than 30 awards, but how many short films have you made?
Speaker 2:Okay. So in terms of short films, I have actually I've actually made four short films. Two of them weren't action, two of them before I did action and two of them were action, so the first one I did was. So the first time I ever got into filmmaking was back in 2020, when the pandemic was happening. I did a short film called Still a Slave, and with that I actually I'd say it was actually, but it had a rope dart to symbolize a lot of struggle, basically, and a flaming rope dart actually. And so I because, like I said, I did a lot of work with accessibility, innovation in terms of I worked with a lot of people with disabilities. For example, I reinvented audio description, utilizing the skills of beatboxers and poets to give a richer sound to people with visual impairment. I saw people with visual impairment break in, as it is an injury prevention and to increase spatial awareness, so it becomes a life skill. It's one of the ways to treat depression, anxiety and PTSD through hip hop dance. There was a lot of stuff around hip hop and accessibility that I'd done, and so I took the audio description element and I put it to the short film, but I had it for everybody to listen to. So it wasn't a case of, it was just an option. It was like no, it was an integral storytelling vehicle. So it was called like the rationale method of audio description, basically. Um, storytelling vehicle. So it was called like the rationale method of audio description, basically, and it's focused on enhancing the, the sound effects that were already in the film, as well as utilizing hip-hop poetry as a storytelling bit. So I think that won like five awards, one of them being like best audio description, another being like achievement accessibility, um, best editing. That was the first one. And then I was still doing theater a lot, so I was like yo, cool, done that over here doing theater, and that was that.
Speaker 2:And then last year, probably about february, march time, so not long before I decided to make make the leap uh, very much time, um, I'd like I said I don't do a lot of stuff with firing, and so what I did was I made a film called drinking smoke, and that short film was about a guy who literally hit rock bottom and he's just having I guess he's having thoughts coming to his head about what his ex-girlfriend was saying to him about he's spitting out control of all the drinking and smoking that he's doing and what his responses were to that. And again, that was audio described, but I utilized the fiery to represent the intoxication of drinking, but also because with fiery and you inhale some vapor into one, so it looks like you're smoking. So I utilize that as a as a powerful metaphor. And then that won multiple awards as well. Then I made a choice to do action films a few months later and just focus on that and nothing else. And then, yeah, flaming assassin came about. Like I said, out of a proof of concept.
Speaker 2:I started in there. It was a beginner made. I'd started my action filmmaking journey. I made my first short film in terms of action. I see I shot it end of september and then I'd come back from the states, shot the rest of it I think it was the last week in nove or something around that. Then I edited it and then submitted it to film festivals beginning of February and then from there, not long after that, I made the Skydiver one, probably about a month or two later, started working on it and then, yeah, that was it. And then I was like, okay, feature films.
Speaker 1:So my question about the feature film is when do you feel is the right time, or when did you feel in your journey it was the right time to go and do a feature film? Is it a moment in time where you say now I have the skill base, the shoulders, the experience and the confidence to do it. Or is it maybe having the right script? Or is it something else?
Speaker 2:okay. So for me, I guess, from the first short film I'd made, obviously, which was back in actually 2020, until the last film that I made, so we actually finished it. Yeah, that actually got submitted to festivals this summer. So, between that period, I had focused on different things for different shorts, and I'd really focused on okay, storytelling, vehicle movement, qualities, choreography, concepts, cinematography. So in different short films, I was experimenting with different things to make sure that I level up. I always.
Speaker 2:The thing is, it's like people, they're always going to judge you that whatever you put out is your finished product. It's never your finished product, because you're always going to level up and you're always going to evolve and change. That may be you at that moment in time, but that's not the be all and end all. Not the be all and end all, though, and so I and I think some people, they're they're too scared to put things out because they're scared to put themselves on the line because of that rejection that could potentially come from it. Um, whereas I was like, I always understood that this is, this is not my final form, this is not my finished product, this is where I'm at, and so I'm going to gauge where I'm at in terms of what the public's response is by it, as well as how I feel I've done with it. And then I'm going to keep pushing this to people like it, great. If they don't like it, that's okay as well, because, one, not everybody's supposed to like everything you do. But, two, it's I'm not, I'm not finished yet. So it's okay if they don't like what I do at any point, because I'm like I'm actually still going to be leveling up and I'm still maybe I've done something and I've actually done something as a risk and maybe the risk paid off, maybe it didn't, you know.
Speaker 2:So over those years I've been honing those skills and then I've been, like I said, every single day, from action, filmmaking, like filming, editing, editing, editing it's all I've done. So from, yeah, a year and a half where not a single day went by that I wasn't doing something like it's always my eat, sleep, breathe, that everything it was just embody it. So when it actually came to filmmaking and making a feature, at that point, what it was, it was basically me being like okay, I want to make a sustainable career out of this. That was what my, my, my catalyst for it was, because I was like I've got the skills to make a feature, or I feel I've got enough knowledge to to make a feature, like, and I know I'm going to be learning, I am learning a lot as I'm making this feature because you, like I say you never, ever stop learning. But if you always think, okay, I'll do it once I've got this or until I would do it.
Speaker 2:But so the problem with a lot of those words is they're, they're procrastinating where so it's just until. But if they're in your vocabulary, what you're doing is you're putting off achieving what it is you want to achieve. So how you have internal discourse or internal dialogue is very important and for me, wherever possible, I try to eradicate there is from from my vocabulary. You know sometimes they creep in, but when I catch myself like nope, gotta get that out of there, I trade them in for doing words. And I am, I'm doing because, even if you're just taking your first step, you're embodying whatever it is you're, you're becoming. A lot of people won't give them permission to be something until they've had certain accolades or whatever. Yet that like, as soon as you start to make that initial step, you're, you are being, you are doing, you make sure you do it with all of your entire being and that's it.
Speaker 2:So, when it came to filmmaking and the features, I was like, okay, I realized how difficult it was, because I'm like, if I want to do this as a career, I need to make sure that it's sustainable, right, and the problem is with short films is they're very difficult to monetize, they're very difficult to make a living from, and a lot of people they'll do it on, you know, through funding, bids and all that kind of stuff. And I I was fortunate in the sense that I never let, um, like, lack of funding stop me. I'm just not that guy. For example, flaming Assassin, that was made on less than 500 quid, 12,000 feet made on less than 500 quid. You know they're going up against films that were, you know, 20, 30, 50k and again, they were winning awards over these films. So your concept is strong enough or your method of storytelling is strong enough. That's what shines through. So for me, that was it.
Speaker 2:I was like, okay, and then there was a director. This was the turning point for me to really be like, right, I'm making a feature. Because I was always like, okay, I need to make Flaming Assassin feature film, I need to make that one feature film. I need to make that one on features, one like over 30 awards by itself need for that one feature now could make. I could have made that my first feature, but in order for me to do it justice, I know I have to get big budget to it. I, in my mind's eye, I see that as a big budget film and I was like, because I have never made a feature before and I need to hone my craft as a feature filmmaker, I want to make a couple features before that. So then, when it comes to making Flaming Assassin hopefully I'll do it ironed out of a lot of kinks in terms of feature filmmaking. So I was like, right, I'm going to do it.
Speaker 2:And then this one director I heard of, he he'd made feature film on two and a half grand and that was shown in view cinemas up and down the country. And I was like two and a half k and I made a feature film. I was like what the hell am I waiting for? I've got no excuse. So that just basically lit a rocket up my ass. That was it really. I just went all in, start script writing and then within a month I finished writing the first draft of the script and then I just went about making a feature film, just connected with a lot of people that I knew and then, yeah, we just went at it from there, really, like a lot of them were a lot of people that were just like we started with a sizzle reel. So we met up for a weekend, did like proof of concept to see what works and what doesn't, and at this time I was also like I said, I realized that short films were quite difficult to make a sustainable living out of right right now.
Speaker 2:The reason I discovered that was because I was always educating myself on the business of filmmaking, which is very different from filmmaking, very different. So there was a lot of steep learning curves, I think. Oh, you know, over the past year and a half, but filmmaking, I can say, for me has been like breathing. Business of filmmaking has taken more energy to really understand and navigate. And again, I travel to learn about the business of filmmaking. Again, I try and learn off the best.
Speaker 2:Or I would try and have meetings with people at the top level or as high level as I possibly could get to. And, like I say for the meetings where people said yes, 50 to 100 saying no, and that was a. You've got to have a thick skin and do this game and just not take things personally. But yeah, that was it. It was just like okay, I want to make this sustainable, can't make it sustainable out of short films. The only way I can make sustainable is making feature films. Oh, I want to make feature films anyway, so let's make feature films. So that was it was as simple as that.
Speaker 1:I just gave myself permission something that, for me, really shines through from all what you're saying and all the stages you went through is that you seem to have been in non-stop research and development, r&d.
Speaker 1:Like you said, I just kept filming, filming and editing, whether it was with my baby daughter or whether it was with one of my friends that had martial arts skills and was a b boy, and I think that is really impressive and also because I feel in the world of film there is that pressure from the moment you start filming, you have a product and it should be shared. In theatre you have more permission of trying, it doesn't have to be shared or you can do an informal sharing or whatever, but in film it almost feels like images are precious, you edit it and here it is, whereas you've been, you had that theater sort of approach, which is no, I'm doing rnd, rnd, rnd rnd and I keep going, and I find that super inspiring thanks, yeah, yeah, like, literally, it's like with anything in life the more energy you point to something, the more you get back from it.
Speaker 2:So for me, it's consistency is key. It really is just like I say. I say to myself like I'm turning up for myself every day and that's what I'm, that's what I'm doing and that's why every day it's on my mind. You know either. It's the business of filmmaking. I risk filmmaking techniques, learning new skills in cinematography, new skills in script writing, dialogue, budgeting, like um, it's all they're making pitch decks, like everything, it's, it's all. It's all there. In terms of relentlessly, my energy is, it's doing it, and when I find out new stuff, I like I say I get excited about it and I utilize that to cat as a catalyst inside me to push on, to find new things out or to try new elements. So it's always about that energy. Just regenerating that energy and just keeping that generator inside you goes up, you know, building up that momentum, um. So so yeah, it really, it really is a case of just don't stop. There's always. There's always a way. You can always find a way.
Speaker 2:If you haven't got anybody at home, just have a broom handle, stock up, just look where the line goes from the camera to that broom handle and then just throw punches at it and just see, okay, where do I cross that line? Okay, because that will give you camera awareness. Just by doing a simple thing as that, walk down the street, you know, just throw out a punch at a branch. Don't hit it though, just stop short of it. You know, try and you know. One thing kevin lee gave me the tip was whenever you just walk down the street, just pick a leaf for tree or something, see if you can do that, not yank it, and it can just be like just that end of it, just to work on your precision and stuff.
Speaker 1:It comes with life you're gonna make this future film. You've written a script, is ready. You're going to direct and also act in it. I presume you have a network, an international network. My understanding is that you don't have a full, full, full, big, massive budget for it, but it's still going to happen Because you're working with. Well, you're working with resources, because you have an international team that is working with you We'll talk about it later but because you also have limited resources on another side, what did you have to give up? Or, you know, say, well, this will be for next time or this, maybe I can look at it artistically differently. And what were you able to add to your vision? What were you able to add to your vision with, perhaps, your network or people you know? And what did you have to give up because of things that weren't there right now?
Speaker 2:So I would say there was a lot of people I wanted to work with and, again, nothing trumps true human connection. If you really connect with people on a genuine level, on a human level, they will work with you and they will do things for you because they see something in you and you will do things to them because you see something in them. You know it's a two-way street. Again, it's about the energy you exchange with people. So I think what I was able to enhance was I was able to have a bigger cast than I thought I would, an international cast as well, which is great. Obviously, because it's my first feature, time is not a luxury For me. Like I said, never. At the finished product, this feature film will be the best it can be within the parameters that it's being made in, and the next feature will be the best it can be within that parameters, and so on and so forth. So I'm really excited, like when I first started this journey of writing the feature, compared to what it's turned into. Like it's phenomenal, like it's turned into, I'm surprised, um, grateful and truly humbled, um, and super excited. It's gonna be wicked and it's kind of like, even from like.
Speaker 2:So the kung fu community, the people that, for example, grew up watching old school kung fu films. A lot of of them have been disappointed with a lot of action films that have come out in, say, like the last 20 or 30 years, more like 20 odd years and stuff, because they feel like the way films are shot the action, the sound effects they're just no good. They lack power, can't see the beauty of people's technique and stuff for various reasons. And a lot of these people have seen the work that I've put out so far and they're like you get it, so we can't wait. We can't wait to to see the film that you make because you get it and like there's actually a few people in the industry that surprisingly said nathan, you're the future. And that has been like such a surprise that people have actually said that about me because I'm like, I'm such, I'm a baby in this journey.
Speaker 2:I've only started, like I say, a year and a half ago now, and so the fact that they like look into me in that way and hold me in high regard, it spurs me on to do the best that I possibly can, because I know what it is that they're missing from their films and they know that I know, and so again, for me, this first film especially is going to speak to those people and that's why, for example, even on the DVD of this film, the film's called the Lock-In.
Speaker 2:By the way, the reason with this feature film is going to have on the dvd extras, it's going to have a hong kong edit in terms of eastern sound effects. So like old school kung fu sound effects, so again you can have western audiences, they can have the western sound effects and stuff. But people that love old school kung fu films, they've got an old school kung fu sound effects soundtrack that they can listen to. So again, I'm really, you know, tapping into audiences and showing that I, I hear them and I want to, you know, make work that they, they can, they can appreciate really and so my understanding is that you so you're going to work or film a part in the us.
Speaker 1:I know that you also have belgian action actors that are coming over to the UK, so you will be filmed in different parts of the world. I guess all these connections you made through your travels that you explained already before. So I have the impression I've heard a lot about the creatives that you've been able to put together. What about the crew, the you know the gaffers, the, you know the, the cameraman, also, maybe people that you have coming in in post-production? Were you able to build a team or are you doing most of it? How does that work?
Speaker 2:yeah, obviously, when you're writing the scripts, directing it and like, um, producing it, like there is a lot of stuff that you you do have to do yourself.
Speaker 2:So, for example, like a lot of the editing I'll be doing myself I mean, I love editing, so that's, that's cool and stuff in post-production, um, but you know other stuff like color grading and things like that, um, sound schools and stuff like that. But I've got peeps on board there that can handle that stuff. In terms of my crew, I've been fortunate so we've already shot the, the scenes in in, so that the scenes in the states they got shot in november. With that it was brilliant. Like I was able to, you know, work with jeff pruitt who was, uh, there's stunt coordinator for like body, the vampire slayer and power rangers. So I was quite fortunate to have such a powerhouse as jeff to work with on my first feature, the same with Keith Vitale. He again is a martial arts legend and a martial arts movie legend and again to be able to work with Keith was a huge honor In terms of other crew. So it was a case of wherever I'm filming, I have people there that I know, of wherever I'm filming, I have people there that I know. So, for example, we shot in Atlanta and some of my family crew from the JC stunt camp were from Atlanta, so they were able to source me crew in Atlanta, so I was able to do that.
Speaker 2:Obviously, like I say, where I live in Sheffield, I know a lot of people in the film industry within the city, soield, I know a lot of people in the film industry within the city, so again, I can have people come on board from that area too. So, again, like I say, true human connection over everything. You have to connect with people on a meaningful level, not on a level where it's like what can I get out of you, but just really see them as a human being and let them really see you. When I presented this production with them, they're like yeah, what you need for it all, right, I got you. I might know a guy, let me see. Obviously, because I was, um, I live in the uk. But then the stage was happening. I had one of my boys out there location scouting for me and he did an incredible job, uh, with my patients.
Speaker 2:So again, I was able to to delegate a lot of the responsibilities. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff that I'm having to do myself. But there's also a lot of stuff I'm able to delegate and feel really grateful, and it's something where, if you can delegate, definitely delegate, so you can literally focus on doing what you do best rather than doing those other bits. There's some parts you can't avoid delegating at this moment in time, and that's fair enough. But wherever you can't avoid delegating at this moment in time, and that's fair enough, but wherever you can delegate, make sure you delegate to other people that are better than you at it, but also just to free up space for you to do what you're best at as well.
Speaker 1:And then, to wrap up this interview, when was the moment where you thought the path of making action movies is my path and it will work? No shadow of a doubt.
Speaker 2:That's where I gotta go and it's gonna work out let's have a look, I would say, from my first background, for Lesma Cynthia, from her telling me I'm good, literally because she was one of my idols growing up as a child, and so for her to say that to me I was just like wow, she sees something, she, she says I've got something.
Speaker 2:So that kind of like really put the confidence in me to put everything into it also manifest.
Speaker 2:I visualize every single day, as I, you know, I visualize that I'm going to be, I'm going to be remembered as one of the greatest fight choreographers, one of the greatest action directors there ever was, and it's like something comes down for me, comes down and goes through my entire body, and I do that multiple times every day and I do it to the point where I believe it it's not a case of'm I mean, I say that with entitlement it's a case of us. I say that because I'm working hard every day to make that a reality and every day that goes by I get a step closer to it, and so that's it. But yeah, and that belief that this is what you're meant to do really does help, and just tap into that source as often as you can and make that happen. Like I said. That's why I am now making my uh feature film, the lock-in. That's the next, that's the next stage in in this journey thank you so much, nathan, for all these really powerful reminders.
Speaker 1:All these words that you said about the three words of procrastination it's just the until and the but and how you just erase them from your vocabulary, how you just trade them in for doing words, all the visualization practices that you do and, just for me also, the non-stop R&D and being in action kind of guy that you are. This is just a great reminder of how we can really make our dreams a reality. If people want to follow more about your journey or this upcoming feature film, and obviously upcoming also, I'm guessing, crowdfunding campaigns that you might also organize for this one or future projects, where can they find you?
Speaker 2:so they can find me at rm action design on instagram or at nathan gearing or nathan gearing on facebook. Like I said, we have a indiegogo campaign, um to help out with the completion of the post-production going on now and things for um the lock-in. So if anybody wants to become a backer, we've got some great perks for people where they can get pre-order like dvds and things, posters and things like that. So there's lots of stuff going on there. So that's on the indiegogo campaign. Again, if you just follow me on one of my social media channels or hit me up, then I can give you all more information on that thank you so much n.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:I hope that I will be, you know, invited or something, for the premiere of that massive, big feature film 100%, most definitely.
