The Loud Whisper Takeover
Featuring interviews with actors, stunts, dancers, filmmakers, action movie directors, athletes, Krav Maga teachers, acting coaches, and more.
Epic tales of changemakers, authentic personal stories, and top tips about the industry, the podcast is a treasure of knowledge helping storytellers of all kinds on their own journeys, and inspiring people to take action upon their own dreams.
Ever heard your inner voice getting louder and louder, urging you towards a new path? When our inner guidance starts to become so loud, we can no longer ignore it, and we MUST take action... This is often a time when life changes direction drastically. We are literally being called to take that leap of faith, make that phone call, write that script, make that film in other words, time to embrace our wildest dreams, shift gear, and grow exponentially.
Let's dive into the art of listening courageously to our inner compass. Because every one of us is destined to live a grand story and adventure while walking on planet Earth!
Headphones on, notebooks out, and buckle up!
Hosted by Cindy Claes.
The Loud Whisper Takeover
28: Writers Research - The Badass, Child-Free Woman Who Conquered Anxiety
In this episode, we explore a thought-provoking question: What would a movie look like if motherhood—or the lack of it—wasn't part of the script? Could it be a thriller, a rom-com, or even a western? These questions lead us into an engaging conversation with Mademoiselle Ginger, a French-American dancer, choreographer, and teacher based in London.
With her trademark orange hair and undeniable charisma, Ginger shares her transformative journey from professional dancer to creative powerhouse. At age 29, a mysterious inner ear problem led her into an eight-year battle with anxiety. She offers a visceral description of the physical manifestations of anxiety: "You're hot, you're bothered, you need to fiddle with your hair, you need to leave the room." Her words shatter many misconceptions about mental health.
Join us for this powerful conversation about creating a life on your own terms.
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Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast. Today is a special kind of episode. Actually, I'm doing this episode as an actress for character research, but also as a screenwriter, because I'm an actress of 35 plus and, to be honest, most of the roles that are out there now are always linked to motherhood or the lack of, and so in the world of film and TV, there are not that many roles where lead characters female lead characters have a narrative that is intricate, that is layered and that has nothing to do with the fact that they are a mother or not. Actually, there are studies that show that there aren't that many roles lead roles for women over 35. Actually, there are less than 10% of lead roles that go to women over 45. Or they are secondary characters, and so I want to just celebrate the amazingness of women's stories.
Speaker 1:What if we were to make a film about these child-free women? What would their stories be like if we were to tell them in a movie? Would it be a thriller, a sci-fi, a rom-com, when it has absolutely nothing to do with motherhood? So we're going to talk about their ambitions, the ups and downs of life, the challenges, the triumphs, the breakdowns, everything. But just to see if we were to make a movie about this particular woman, what would it look like? So please welcome for the first episode an amazing dancer, choreographer and dance teacher, mademoiselle Ginger, born in France, based in London. Hello, hello, how are you doing? I'm good. How are you? I'm super well. So I'm so excited to talk to you today. So, first of all, before we dive into your life that could be a thriller, a rom-com, a big drama, a comedy Can you just tell us in a nutshell, what do you do as an artist, as a creative, and who are you as a human being?
Speaker 2:My name is Mademoiselle Ginger for full stage name. I'm a dance teacher, I'm a performer, I'm a creative person. My favorite color is orange. I'm 37. I do lots of things, but that's like the compact part of it. I'm hosting now as well, which I really enjoy. So, yeah, and I love to battle.
Speaker 1:I'm a strong freestyler, so that's the angles that I come in at During this episode we're going to learn more about what you do as an artist and that sort of things, but let's just dive into your life story. Okay, Every guest that comes on the podcast, I always ask them to fill in a little questionnaire and for me it's to just dive deeper into their universe. So I suggest that we first go maybe into a bit more of a personal side of what you've been going through in your life. I know that anxiety has played a role at some point in your life. Could you tell us what this anxiety was and where it led us? And then also you can you can tell this story as a very sad thing or a comedic thing or whatever you want tell us more about anxiety and why that was a turning point in your life. I think it's all the things.
Speaker 2:It's a comedy, it's a tragedy, it's all the things at the same time. I have lived a really fantastic life, like I have nothing to complain about. So when I was I think I was 29 I had an issue with my ear which it took a long time for it to be diagnosed. I didn't know what was going on. I was experiencing extreme vertigo and dizziness, which led me to having time off work. It was the first time really in my life that I couldn't dance, so it was extremely frustrating for me, because I've danced my whole life. This is what I do. I go out, I teach, I go to parties. It's as much my work as it is who I am. You know what I mean. I'm so intertwined with what I do. So I had an issue with my inner ear, took a long time for doctors to figure out what's wrong with it. Cut to figuring that out and then trying to get out of, I guess, the funk and the anxious mentality that came with that, which at the time I didn't know it was anxiety, like I didn't understand that. I thought there was an issue with my ear. We figured that out, I'm going to take some medicine and I'll be fine. That's what I thought.
Speaker 2:So when the dizziness and the vertigo continued, when I felt like I couldn't go to work anymore, even though they were telling me I could go back, when I would be in a room, particularly with young children, and they would be running around me and I would get really hot and bothered and uncomfortable all things I had never experienced before. I'm a confident woman, dare I say. Crowd control of like kids, so to speak, is like one of my strong suits. So at this point I was back in my work, cleared from this ear problem, and I was still extremely uncomfortable. And I want to talk about the physical aspect, because when you talk about anxiety, people think it's quote, unquote, all in in your head. Listen, it really isn't. You're hot, you're bothered, you're uncomfortable, you need to sit down, you need to stand up, you need to fiddle with your hair, you need to take a beat, you need to leave the room, you feel sick, you need the loo, like all of the things. And I just didn't know that this was anxiety. I hadn't experienced it before and I didn't know. So I got really low in my mind. I got very worried. What is my life without dance? Is my life as I know it over. I mean the drama, cindy, the drama, but this was real in my head it was.
Speaker 2:I remember sitting because I had bought my first home, my flat that I live in now shortly before this happened. I remember sitting here on my own thinking like this is it Like my whole life is now changing? Anyway, we figured out it was anxiety, and I went to see a psychiatrist because I knew that this was something that I needed bigger help for. It wasn't just take a week off and go for a walk, like that was just not going to cut it, and so I started seeing someone and, long story short, I'm 37 now. This started when I was 29. I'm in a completely different place now.
Speaker 2:Do I still have anxious days? Absolutely. Is my life, though, happy again? Yes, that's the biggest thing. Really. It takes a long time.
Speaker 2:I really think a lot of people, and me included, don't really understand that anxiety is a really long process and you can still have it, but be okay. Still. You can have good days and bad days, but when you're in the thick of it and it's all bad days, it's really horrible. So, yeah, so anxiety was a really big chunk of my early 30s. And then you have the people saying to you is it because you're turning 30? And you're like who are you putting this energy on me, like I keep? I kept because I'm very open about my story, so I kept saying no, no, I had an issue with my ear and it led to me posing all these questions and doubting myself and that led to suffering from anxiety. Um, but people want to put a different narrative on you. Is it because you're turning 30? Is it because you feel like your life is? And I was like no, my life is great, get out. So that's, I don't know. A long answer, answer, a short answer all of the things.
Speaker 2:And actually it's funny like the latest Pixar I don't know if you've seen it Inside Out 2 with the anxiety character.
Speaker 2:Like when I first saw the first Disney Inside Out, I felt extremely overwhelmed by that movie because it was like showing me what was going on in my brain. I wasn't ready for it. And then, when the second one came out and the character of anxiety existed, I was like feeling really happy to meet anxiety as a character, because one of the things that I've worked on in therapy is imagining don't laugh at me imagining anxiety like a little dog, and sometimes the little dog is just sitting by your feet. And sometimes the little dog is just sitting by your feet and sometimes the little dog is jumping up and sometimes the little dog is like on top of your face and so, like when I was starting to get out of the thick of it, I really started to go okay, today the dog was just jumping at my feet, today the dog was on my head, today the dog is like laying on my body. So this is how my relationship with anxiety started, continued, continues, but is better. Did I answer your question?
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, absolutely. That's a great start. The first thing I want to bounce back from is the different narratives that people start to put on you, because obviously we're going to talk about being child free and how, as women, you know, we are very much at the receiving end of narratives that they want to put on us. But I feel this oh, the 30s life crisis, all these life crises, whether it's with our bodies changing or our age or whatever. As women, I feel we're very often at the receiving end of these narratives, like you said, and we don't relate to that. And at the receiving end of these narratives, like you said, and we don't relate to that.
Speaker 1:I just want the listeners to really understand how you actually shine a very different energy from anxiety, generally speaking, in your work as an artist. I obviously know you as a dancer and I've seen a lot of it. Can you just give us a little bit of people that haven't seen your work but are just listening to this podcast? What do they have to imagine? Because you are a bit of a character. You're into the world of whacking. You can also say a word about whacking, but who are you? You know, when people meet you for the first time. You're absolutely not the stereotypical image we would think about somebody that suffers from anxiety. Tell us more about that side of you, I think.
Speaker 2:I'm also not the stereotypical dancer look. So I think that's an interesting thing, right. So I'm like five foot one and a half, but I think a lot of people think I'm much taller for two reasons. One, because I'm loud. You know that thing of like short people are compensating and so they're loud. Yes, that is probably part of it. I wear high heels a lot, so I also think that gives me like height and more presence. I have big orange hair.
Speaker 2:I'm half American, half French, so sometimes I think, like when I joke around, I think like the French side is the abrupt will have an opinion on everything. Don't impose this narrative on me's the French side, then the American side is I love musical theater, I need to entertain everybody all the time. I love Disney, I'm obsessed with Halloween. So you put those two things together and you get like this orange ball of energy. And I do think sometimes it is clear that I have anxiety. Sometimes, like on days where I fiddle with my hair a lot, it's very obvious. But I will just say I'm sorry, I'm anxious today and crack on with my day. And I think through my dance I don't think my dance itself has changed. I think the way I approach events and performance has changed because I have to figure stuff out. How I'm going to, you know, like how I'm going to go to this event with 300 people now that I have anxiety is different to how I was going to go to this event with 300 people when I was 21 and I had no anxiety and also, dare I say, no quote unquote name in the scene. So no one's expecting anything.
Speaker 2:But now it's like, ooh and with all gingers here, pros and cons, right, a part of me admits I am a show-off. I've been a show-off my whole life. At school people were like, yes, I'm a show-off. Now I'm like listen, kids, it's because I'm a performer, you know what I'm saying. You flip the narrative. So now you walk into a room and whether people like you or not, they'll be like and so I just have to turn it on. It's something I teach in my workshops to turn on and turn off like a light switch. Yes, I'm anxious, but you turn on that performance, you do what you need to do. And then, when you get home and Bette Midler, you know who is one of my ultimate icons. She talked about this in an interview years ago you get home and you're like a deflated balloon. But it's fine, it's how I function. I go out, I perform, I do my thing, I give everyone a happy time.
Speaker 1:I come home, I sit alone in my flat with my fairy lights and my blanket, and then I start again and just to make it clear so obviously this experience of anxiety started about almost 10 years ago because of your health problems with your ear. Yes, has that health problem been resolved now?
Speaker 2:it is resolved. I lived in fear of it coming back for a long time because it had a. It changed my life essentially. It changed how I approach, like everything, because that's what led me to having anxiety, but it was a problem with the inner ear and my balance. And they did this horrible therapy where they like throw water in your ear, like it was absolutely terrifying and like if anyone else had this ear issue I would actually say try and figure out another way to treat it than the way that they treated it for me. I just didn't have any knowledge of it, and some people I can't remember the name. There's another issue with ear vertigo that is similar to what I had, but it's not what I had.
Speaker 1:So everyone kept saying oh yeah, you'll be over in three weeks and I was like no guys.
Speaker 2:This has already been two and a half months, but it's resolved and it's fine. And it was apparently caused by a virus that attacked the inner ear, but that I have to be very clear. That is what catapulted the anxiety. The anxiety was what changed my life. The ear issue was what catapulted me into anxious mode. Does that make sense? Yes, that's why I talk less about the ear thing than I talk about the anxiety thing.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to approach this as a screenwriter, right, because as a screenwriter, the more specificities we have, the more the story makes sense. So we could tell the story if I was a screenwriter and I'm like, hey, I'm going to write a story about a part of, you know, mademoiselle Ginger's life. Yeah, I would incorporate the ear thing, even though the feeling of the viewers they would relate more to anxiety, but it's the specificity of this character going through a very specific problem that makes the film relatable. You know what I mean. I'm going to go back to the ear thing, but obviously you know, like, add all the humanity that. You know what I mean. I'm gonna go back to the ear thing, but obviously you know, like, add all the humanity that you want it.
Speaker 1:I hear that the treatment was kind of a very uncomfortable sort of situation. Yeah, if you were to and you can really describe the doctor as the most horrendous Disney character or Voldemort or whatever you want, yeah, yeah, if we had to write a script around the treatment you received and, like you said, it might not have been the right choices of the doctors or there were more gentle ways to do it, would it be a thriller, would it be a horror movie. Maybe it could have gone wrong If you had to make a movie, a thriller, a horror or something else about the treatment part of it what would it be and why, and who would play what role?
Speaker 2:this is a very interesting question. I'm so into this, but it's hard to answer. Like I think it was a horror going to six or seven different appointments to figure out what was wrong with me. Like I even went to do the thing where they check if you've got brain cancer, so you know. And then you sit in Pizza Express and you wait for the evil doctor to tell you no, you're fine. What a day that was. And what's comedic this is a true story is I was sitting in Pizza Express waiting for these results, telling my parents how I wanted my funeral to go. I was like so if I die, I want you to play Proud Mary from Tina Turner, the live version. And we were just eating there, eating our pizza.
Speaker 2:So it's hard for me to answer your question because I think the evil okay, if I were to make this a animated type movie, the evil villain would be the virus in my ear right. That's the evil person attacking the inside, trying to bring Manwaz al-Jindr down. And then I think the doctors the series of doctors that I saw would be like. Some of them might be like the evil ear viruses, sidekicks and some of them were not sidekicks, but you don't know which one's which who's evil and who isn't. So every appointment you go to at me like I don't know, is this person trying to bring me down or is this person trying to help me? Because going in and you know a doctor throwing water in my ear. First of all I said I really need to pee now. And she started laughing and I was like no, I'm gonna wet myself. This is making me want to go to the bathroom. And she was like no one's ever said that before. I'm like no one's had the guts to tell you because you need to let me go pee, because this is not going to be cute. So every appointment was like this new thing One doctor made me walk up and down like on a cube with my eyes closed cube with my eyes closed and then when I opened my eyes, I was in a completely different angle of the office.
Speaker 2:So I think, like the villain was definitely the virus, but you would go through this kind of horror. No, okay, it's not a horror, I think it's like a thriller. You know those 90 thrillers with Denzel Washington, those movies where, like you don't know, are you a villain? Are you a villain? Are you going to save villain? Are you a villain? Are you going to save me? Are you a villain? And you only find out at the end of the movie who was good guy and who was bad guy?
Speaker 1:do you know about what you said to the doctors and stuff?
Speaker 2:I think it's like flipping hilarious she said to me no one's ever said that before. I was like I because okay, so what's an interesting story too is not the first psychiatrist I saw, but like the third one I saw down the line. My first introduction was I need you to know that I am a performer and that sometimes I'm going to look like I'm fine because I'm switched on Right, but if I'm telling you I'm not fine, please believe me, don't go with what you're seeing physically. And that's something I started having to tell people because people were like, not necessarily taking me seriously, like this woman who I said I need the bathroom. Can I just go and come back and answer your questions?
Speaker 2:There was a lot of that. You know where you're. They're making you walk up and down a corridor with your eyes closed and you're like and I would say things like I feel like I'm in the Titanic, like white walls, like where am I going? Can you explain what you're doing? I need to understand, just do this. And you're just like why Can you explain what you're doing? I need to understand, just do this. And you're just like why can you explain it to me? And that's why, to this day, if you ask me, what was the issue called with your ear?
Speaker 2:I actually can't remember because I feel like there was no like real explanation. It was just like a series of tests which makes it a thriller. Because you don't know what's going on right and you're just sitting on the edge of your seat and, like when I watch a thriller, because you don't know what's going on right, and you're just sitting on the edge of your seat and, like when I watch a thriller, I mute it because the music just makes it worse. I feel like this was the opposite, like I needed way more information to make me feel secure in what I was going through, but there was no information so what kind of music would you know you doing all those tests?
Speaker 1:what would be like the? The background music in that movie Just strings, okay.
Speaker 2:Listen, I don't score movies Please don't come for me but like a lot of strings, a lot of like bad violin playing where you go like slightly off, that's what it felt like to me.
Speaker 1:I would love to go back to this moment of comedy, which is you sitting in Pizza Express talking to your parents about death. I just want to share something as well, personally, because I recently, last year, I lost my mom. She was very ill and she chose for euthanasia, which is legal in Belgium since 2002. Going through the experience of accompanying my mom, choosing for her date an hour of her last goodbyes I cannot put the words sad on it, because there was a power to it, a spiritual power, power, an energetic power. But if people only knew, on top of all the obviously very, you know, intense conversations we had, because obviously we knew when we were going to say our goodbyes, there was also a tremendous amount of humor, like the amount of times we had conversations about, yeah, the fact that she was going to die and you know, for example, she said, oh, she will look after me for certain things, and I'm like, no, mom, you do not. You go and find me the angel that is the most expert in that field, because I know that your advice will not be the good one.
Speaker 1:There was a huge amount of humor and, just like I don't want to say, fun, but there was comedy. You know that helped us also go through it. Going back to this moment of you taking those tests about hey, do I have maybe brain cancer, maybe I am dying, maybe I'm not staying for long? Tell me more about what was said in that pizza express with your parents. Did they take it seriously? Were you both being sarcastic? Was it the way the both of you making a movie out of it? Were they breaking down and you were laughing? What really happened in that moment?
Speaker 2:I mean, first of all, thank you for sharing your experience and I'm sorry to hear that your mother has passed, but I'm interested in this conversation too and I'm so glad that you can share what you just shared. Look, I think the reality is that I didn't think I was dying, but a part of me was that I could go back in that office in 25 minutes and they could tell me I have a brain Like it was real, it wasn't like a fake experience, and both my parents came with me to Pizza Express. My dad took a day off work because he was still working at the time, and the three us went to pizza express and I think in that moment I tell you what it is. I I'm not very good at ignoring an issue, like even a small thing, like I'm not very good if you have a something, if you have a disagreement, I'm not very good at just sweeping it under the rug. I actually think I should probably try a bit more for certain things, but I'm someone who needs to talk about everything. I need to talk about all the things. So in that moment I felt like we couldn't not talk about the fact that in 20 minutes, they might say you have a brain tumor, like what, we're gonna cut our pizza and talk about what shoes like. To me that's not possible and I know to a lot of people it is, but to me it isn't.
Speaker 2:And my family is a very sarcastic. We're very sarcastic, okay, a lot, not everyone, but a lot of us. We're very sarcastic and we also do talk about death, not in terms of like if you know how death is, but we do, as a family, talk about. This is I don't know if fashion. It's a bit sad, but it's comedic. Like I'll say, if I die, I want this coat of mine to go to this person, because this person will actually wear it and you will just leave it in a cupboard and you put on vintage and I'm not having my ginger fashion sit in a closet right. I took me time to find this vintage, so this goes to you, and so we do joke about certain things in that sense, and I just think it's how we operate. I don't know if we're serious, I don't know if we're joking. I think we're somewhere in the middle somewhere, and I also believe that humor and comedy is just like really important, and I don't mean laugh out loud.
Speaker 2:Ah, we weren't doing that in Pizza Express. It wasn't that, but it was just like me saying let me be very clear If I die, it's a party. Don't you dare have people wearing black people, better be in sequins and full orange, get up. You know what I'm saying, and but this is where I'm a tragic person. I still want everyone to be crying. Okay, for, like ever, you have to cry, everyone has to cry, but everyone has to look fabulous. I don't know. I just think like it was a tough time and it took a while to get answers, but all in all, I'm absolutely fine, and so the story ends well, and I think this conversation would be very different if the story didn't end well. Of course, but making light of that in pizza express was the only way I knew there was no way I could talk about. So tell me about your next business trip, why we're all thinking about the same thing, you know let's move on to another topic now.
Speaker 1:Okay, if we had to look at your life, is there any moment in your life that could be an absolute fabulous rom-com?
Speaker 2:yeah, but, no okay, no, I can spin that. I can spin that. It's a rom-com where I realize that I really like being alone. I love living alone. I cannot stress that enough. People think I say that to justify or whatever. No, no, no, no, listen, I absolutely love living alone. It's the best thing ever. And so maybe the rom-com is realizing that right now I'm in love with this life. I'm in love with all of these decisions that I solely make selfishly for my own happiness, like I don't really see the problem, and I believe that I might meet someone when I'm 45, 55, 65. I genuinely think maybe that's another phase in the future, but like I'm actively staying alone on purpose.
Speaker 1:So I think maybe the rom-com is that angle and I love that you're talking about that as well, because I feel like that's another narrative that is being imposed right by society, that we should be in a new relationship, that's the only way we can be, live a fulfilled life, and blah, blah, blah. And I'm not sure how men experience that in this world if they feel the same sort of pressure from the outside world. But there is a little bit of this narrative of can you be really happy alone, kind of thing. So it's really important that you also mention that. Also for me as a perspective as a writer writing new stories about, about women in general, would there be a part of your story that could be turned into a western? Oh geez, a western? So more like you know, villain against villain or war sort of you know conflict, or Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So maybe it's like the dance industry and certain people in the dance industry like all of the time telling me I'm not going to make it because of X, y, z, like my whole life, and it's exhausting, so that I think has been an ongoing conflict, if you will in my Western that I think I'm out of now, because I think now I think there's two things. I think, one, the industry has changed one, and two, I think now I'm so confident in who I am as a performer and an artist that I don't even go near the spaces that don't get it.
Speaker 1:Give us the top five reasons that were given to you as as being the person that was not going to make it okay.
Speaker 2:The one of the ones that came up the most, especially when I was between 14, I would say, in 22 ish, was I'm not flexible enough and I have the wrong body type. That was over a decade Well, a decade ish of hearing that absolutely all the time and, to be clear, I still don't really know what the wrong body type means. And, to be even clearer, I don't know if what they mean is I wasn't flexible, I wasn't strong, I didn't have the feet you know those weird ballet people with their feet Love you ballet people, but it's a weird sentence, is what I'm trying to say or if they meant that I was too curvy because I was. Now I'm a plus size performer. Uk size 18 is like my size. I wasn't a plus size performer when I was in my teens and 20s, but I was definitely curvy. So I had hips and I had thighs and my body wasn't what one would call the stereotypical dancer's body. And so to this day, when people said to me I don't, you don't have the right body type, I still don't know really what they meant. But it was so annoying, cindy, I can't even deal. So that was one, then a recurring one, when I was trying to be in musical theater was that I couldn't sing, which, okay, that's a good reason, but it's annoying Because, like at the time I wanted to be when I was younger, I really wanted to be in musical theater. That really was like for those people who know the industry I wanted to be like Velma Kelly in Chicago and now I want to be Mama Morton in Chicago. Somebody cast me Plug. That was annoying.
Speaker 2:And then another one is like a little later is like people comparing you to other artists. Now that never. That sat really wrong. Someone saying, if this person didn't make it, then you're definitely not going to make it, and that was a comment that has stuck with me. That was horrible. It was a horrible comment and I won't give names and I won't give context, but it don't. Please don't do that. People listening, please don't say, if this person doesn't make it, then you're not like.
Speaker 2:We're all different. We all want different things. The person I was being compared to wasn't even going for the same work as me. We don't even have the same talents, so why I was being, we were being, compared to each other is out of. I don't get it. I'm confused. What else? There's so many, um, obviously, like there was a section where I was overweight and people were like you're fat, but now people want people on tv that look like people that are not on tv. So now there's more work opportunity for people that just look like me and other physiques in the dance industry, like people are casting, what people are casting, what they want to call normal people, which bothers me, because we're all normal people. Doesn't matter if you're a size 4 or a size 22, we're all normal people. You know what I'm saying. But they're just broadening because tv I think the fact that people watch tv more means that the people creating television want to put more people on TV that look like the people that watch the TV.
Speaker 1:I can totally relate to that because obviously I started in the world of dance and when I moved to London so I moved from Belgium to London I will always remember literally I only had two people that encouraged me. It was a dance school where I was teaching and the directors really encouraged me. Everybody else of my mentors didn't have a positive word for me. Yeah, and I remember one of those mentors telling me are you moving to London? Good luck, because you've got a difficult body. And that was because I was considered too curvy. You know, when I look at pictures now I'm like what the madness was that?
Speaker 1:But just the fact that he was saying that as a mentor, I find it very inappropriate. Now I can look back at it and see well, that mentor, or all these mentors, most of them never had the courage, the guts to actually move country and find more for their soul or their creative expression. Yeah, so obviously these kind of remarks came my way many times as a dancer as well. Yeah, so obviously these kind of remarks came my way many times as a dancer as well. So if you were to make, let's say that we you know we have we're writing a movie about this girl that has like big dreams in the world of dance and she has all these characters that are trying to stop her. Would you turn it more into like a sci-fi or would it be more like a fantasy, like these bad angels that were talking to her, or real people where it's more, you know, like these, these very like cruelest kind of characters? Mary poppins?
Speaker 2:the original, like some of it is animated and some of it is not animated. I suppose the new mary poppins is also like that, but I see it like that. I see there's some animated or I don't know what it's called like special effects villains, and some are real, and it's back to what we were saying earlier. I think what's interesting is sometimes the people that are the meanest to you or say things that you take and that really hurt your feelings are people that are close to you. So so what do they look like? It's not the typical Cruella. Cruella comes into the movie and she's the villain. She looks like a villain, she talks like a villain. She's the villain. It's more of this like undercover, trying to figure people out. Are you trying to help me? Are you saying this to help me change things, work on things, or are you saying this to pull me down? And I think throughout my movie I found it hard to figure certain things, certain characters out.
Speaker 1:Absolutely love what you're saying there, yeah.
Speaker 2:And also let's be, let's put numbers on this. I knew I wanted to be a dancer by the time I was. I always knew I wanted to be a dancer. There was never another job I wanted to do. But the minute I took it really seriously and was no going back was around the age of 14. 14, it was like this is what I'm doing. And then 15, 16 was my phase of sorry, this is a bad example, but missing school to go to dance. Please don't do do what I'm saying, but I'm just telling you my true story.
Speaker 2:Catering my own schedule, I would take a ballet class here on at this time and I would go to this other studio, take a hip-hop class there and I would audition for this and literally 16 years old, you know, in a queue in Elephant and Castle outside Huskies, auditioning for a hip-hop show, when I had been taking hip hop classes for two minutes because I was extremely determined. I still am extremely passionate and when you are between the age 14, you are a child and so it is harder to figure out which characters are helping you, which characters think they're helping you but they're not, because it doesn't work with your personality and your way of working and which characters are just evil villains who don't want you to make it. You know it's harder At 37, you meet people and you almost immediately go. Okay, you're trying to help, but this isn't going to work for me because you've learned, or you'll go. I don't like your energy. You're a villain in my movie or you'll go. Okay, you're trying to be helpful, Thank you.
Speaker 2:I think you just learn and most of my life has been about learning on the job. Everything, whether it's practical things like how does a stage show actually work. I never went to a school that explained this to me. I got a job and I learned on the job how to do the job. Same with teaching. I got a degree later, but at the beginning it was like, hey, can you cover? Okay, and you're in a room and you're just covering a class and you don't really know how. I did a lot of learning on the job and I think I learned on the job about people and therefore characters as well about your future?
Speaker 1:yeah, and what are your, your, your biggest aspirations, both on a personal level and a professional level, because you already achieved a lot, like you know. You worked with Disney, you've been on tour, you've been teaching like for 21 years. You're blossoming in what you're doing. What are your aspirations for your future? Professionally speaking, but also personally, like what is next? What would be your next season, your next step, your next leveling up the game in both fields?
Speaker 2:I think, like personally, I just want to be happy. So I'm constantly checking myself, like checking in with myself Am I happy? Am I enjoying what I'm doing? So from a personal life, like happiness, spending more time with my family and being a bit smarter with work choices, that I'm not always working and that I can have time with my family, which means saying no to some stuff. So, yeah, family, just more family time parents, my siblings, my cousins, my grandparents. I have family in the states, which is far. So thank goodness for the internet because you can send a voice note, you can do a facetime, that's. I mean, that wasn't like that when we were kids. We saw them once a year and that was it. So spending time with my family, spending time alone, just with myself and my movies and my fairy lights, that's my happy place for me.
Speaker 2:And then, personally, look, a few years ago I went from being mainly teaching ballet and now I mainly teach whacking and the street styles and I work a lot more with students towards performance. I used to work a lot towards ballet exams. That's been a really big shift. I found a lot of happiness in this new shift. So I want to continue that, continue the teaching continue, the giving opportunity for performance to young people, but also people older than me, like whoever wants the opportunity, so that. But also I want to battle again. Look, I just shouldn't say again I never really stopped, but I don't do it as much. I want to continue battling. I don't think I'm too old, I don't think my time is over, I'm absolutely not retired. So just give me a minute and I'll be back. I want to battle.
Speaker 2:I would love to do okay, I'm going to say it on here because I want it to happen I really want to do some voiceover work. I did a little bit of voiceover work for the Jean-Paul Gaultier fashion freak show, where I got to be like the grandmother of Jean-Paul Gaultier as the voiceover with my French accent, and I really enjoyed it okay. So I would really love and that wasn't planned, I just did it. I would love to get into that. I. I would love to host more events. I've been doing that a little bit and I really enjoy that. And then, like on a huge scale, like I would just love to book one of those ridiculous commercials that are like really cheesy, where it's just me, and they're like run worldwide and I'm like, hey, I'd love to do one of those, because I've never done like a commercial, so I would love to do that and have that experience. I'd love to perform live again.
Speaker 2:But all of these things are things that I believe that I will either go get or come to me or it'll meet in the middle. That's just where I am Happiness seeing what comes in the inbox, going to get things that don't come in the inbox, checking in to see if I enjoy something. Sometimes you book a job that you really wanted and then you're like, oh my God, why am I not enjoying this? And you're like pulling your hair out, and sometimes it's as simple as I'm not enjoying it because the lunch break is at four and I'm starving. Sometimes it's like simple and sometimes it's I'm not enjoying it because my body's not comfortable in this movement, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:So I'm really good at asking myself the right questions, like a casting will come in and I'll read the specs and my brain will go yeah, I want to do this. And then I'll literally pause for five minutes and go wait, wait, there's a 24 hour flight. I really don't want to do this because my anxiety will be like yeah, so I don't have any real specific things. I have a lot of ideas of things and Disney taught me that. Disney taught me that because when I booked work for Disney like I never thought that I would do that and also live I worked on the live action Little Mermaid. Live action movies didn't exist when we were younger, so it's not really something that live action versions of classics. They didn't exist. So that's not something that was like on my board as a goal because I didn't even know it existed. So that job taught me that you need to be open to stuff coming in that you actually never imagined doing.
Speaker 1:I love that. That's so true, so true. So you also told me a bit before we started recording that you were comfortable talking about why you don't have children and why you are child free. So the first question is why do you not have children? I don't really want any.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's a simple answer. Like I think I'm 37, I feel like if I really wanted kids, I'd really feel that. I really feel I have always followed my dreams and followed my passions. So I feel like if I really wanted kids, I would feel that in in me and be like actively on a mission to make that happen, like I've been. Like I was on a mission to buy this flat. I was like I want to buy a flat. I was on a mission. I want to be in Jean-Paul Gaultier Fashion Friction. I'm on a mission. I want to have a strong position in a school or a studio, which I have now. I was on a mission. So I felt like if I really wanted kids, I would be on a mission to have them and so, therefore, the fact that I don't have children is a thought-through thing for me. I just don't really want them. Now I know what you're going to say. Might you change your mind? Sure, maybe, maybe, but like I really want the respect to be there of like right now, in this time, it's absolutely not on my cork board to have kids, so please just allow that to be a basic answer. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:The comment I don't like is when people say to me she can do it, she doesn't have a family. I have a family. I have a mom. I have a mom, I have a dad, I have a sister, I have a brother. I have a grandma, I have another grandma, I have a grandpa. I've got an uncle, I've got two aunts, I've got other uncles, I've got cousins, I've got second cousins, I've got friends. I consider family.
Speaker 2:How dare you say I don't have a family? That comment I do not like. Now they mean, yes, I know what they mean. I live in the same world. I know what they mean. They mean I don't have a partner and I don't have a child. That's what they mean. But because I don't have a partner and I don't have a child doesn't mean that on Monday or Sunday or Tuesday I don't want the day off to spend with my family, even though my family is not a partner and a child.
Speaker 2:That comment has always really gotten under my skin. She can do it. She doesn't have a family. You can do that. You don't have a family? Can you do that? Because you don't have a family? You're available. You don't have a family. That that really you can probably tell because I'm getting all wound up that comment. I really don't like it. And now, finally, I'm at a place where, when people say that, I say no, but I'm, I have a family. Please, I do, I really do have a family. So I really don't like that comment. I really don't like it.
Speaker 1:it really bothers me is there one more comment, uh, that you've been told as a child free woman that gets under your skin, or that you were surprised by, or that makes you just laugh out loud there's been a few, but I'll be honest, I don't want to give power to them in this moment.
Speaker 2:I think also there's a lot of people who have actually been really kind and really nice about the fact that I don't have kids. There's a lot of people who like a good I'll give you a good comment that I really enjoyed. Like I teach children every day. Okay, and I have done so for 21 years of my life. I teach children every. It's a weekly gig of mine, and so sometimes I joke and I say I'll look after 16 kids for an hour and then another 16 kids and then I'll give them back to you and I'll go home. That's my forte. I said much earlier on the podcast quote unquote that crowd control, kid jester, entertainer, teacher that is what I do. And then I go home on my own and people just are very kind and say things like you're so good with them, you're an amazing teacher, you're a great role model to them. Those comments are beautiful comments that really are important to me. I really value when one of my students writes like I have a note on my fridge. It's a heart-shaped post-it written by a small child and it says ginger, you are the best teacher in the world and over the 21 years of my career, I cannot tell you how many drawings orange stick men with an orange hair thing on top, drawings, bracelets kids have made for me and in me, and that is my relationship to children that I find very fulfilling. And there are a lot of people who really praise me for that relationship, who you know, who tell me that I do a really good job, and those comments are extremely important to me and I value those, and so I want to give an ending note on those comments.
Speaker 2:I remember when I was much, much younger and I was an assistant I wasn't a teacher yet there was a little girl who would cry a lot. She was three, she was really tiny. She would cry a lot, she would cry a lot and on the day of the show her mum dropped her off and somebody said I think she needs her teacher and she went no, no, no, she needs the assistant, she needs. My name wasn't Ginger at the time, but she needs Ginger and me.
Speaker 2:As a young I think I must have been 17, I was really young this three-year-old wanted me. She wanted to be comforted by me before going on stage. This is happens all the time. In my 21 year career, I have a good relationship with children and the youth in general and I do my best as a teacher to remain their teacher and not their friend. And I don't know, I try really hard and there's a lot of kids, a lot of parents, a lot of uncles, grandparents sometimes, who come to the show and be like you're Ginger, I've heard about you so many times on the phone and that is just lovely and I just really value that.
Speaker 1:So thank you so much for our chat today, Ginger. I had a lot of visuals as a writer, so thank you for sharing your story. If people want to know more about you and your artistic path and your classes and stuff, where can they find out more Instagram?
Speaker 2:mademoiselle underscore ginger website mademoisellegingercom. Basically, just type in mademoiselle, ginger, Mademoiselle M-A-D-E, because everyone types in Mademoiselle but it's Mademoiselle. I'm being dramatic over here. So, yeah, you just type my name in and you can find me. I'm the orange one. If there's any confusion, that's the one you want to hit.
