The Loud Whisper Takeover
Featuring interviews with actors, stunts, dancers, filmmakers, action movie directors, athletes, Krav Maga teachers, acting coaches, thriller cinema experts, and more.
Epic tales of changemakers, authentic personal stories, and top tips about the industry, the podcast is a treasure of knowledge helping storytellers of all kinds on their own journeys, and inspiring people to take action upon their own dreams.
Ever heard your inner voice getting louder and louder, urging you towards a new path? When our inner guidance starts to become so loud, we can no longer ignore it, and we MUST take action... This is often a time when life changes direction drastically. We are literally being called to take that leap of faith, make that phone call, write that script, make that film in other words, time to embrace our wildest dreams, shift gear, and grow exponentially.
Let's dive into the art of listening courageously to our inner compass. Because every one of us is destined to live a grand story and adventure while walking on planet Earth!
Headphones on, notebooks out, and buckle up!
Hosted by Cindy Claes (action actress, filmmaker, public speaker)
The Loud Whisper Takeover
BONUS 6: Autoproduire ses films (Français)
(This Bonus episode is in French. For subtitles, please listen on Youtube.)
Et si la voie traditionnelle de faire ses films – attendre des années pour obtenir des subventions – n'était pas la seule voie possible ?
L'animatrice du podcast, Cindy Claes, a invité Brandon Gotto, un cinéaste belge qui a pris les choses en main et qui a créé plusieurs longs métrages avec des micro-budgets allant de 1 000 à 5 000 €.
« Pour moi, chaque film est une question de vie ou de mort. Je dois le faire », confie Brandon avec une passion sincère. Alors que de nombreux réalisateurs passent des années à naviguer le labyrinthe bureaucratique des commissions cinématographiques, Brandon a progressivement construit un CV impressionnant en opérant en dehors du système.
Cet épisode lève le voile sur les réalités pratiques du cinéma indépendant et offre des conseils pratiques pour commencer à créer ses propres films dès maintenant, sans attendre les conditions idéales.
Instagram Cindy Claes:
@cindy_claes
Instagram Brandon Gotto:
@brandongotto_filmmaker
Inferno - Bande Annonce:
https://youtu.be/4NEp0f58k2Y?si=qZDPWGssgKJL-P4o
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Welcome to the Loud Whisper Takeover podcast. Today's episode will be in French. You can watch it on YouTube with subtitles. Bienvenue au podcast de Loud Whisper Takeover. Aujourd'hui, on va parler en français. C'est un épisode bonus Et on va aborder un grand sujet qui est le fait de faire ses films, ses propres films, de manière indépendante, mais sans subvention. Est-ce que c'est possible? Où est-ce qu'on trouve le feu et la niaque pour le faire? Quels sont les côtés positifs de le faire sans subvention? Quels sont les moments durs? On va parler de toutes ces réalités avec what are the hard times? We will talk about all these realities with a Belgian guest. So here in Belgium, we have something called the Cinema Commission and then we also have the WAF in Flanders. In general, it's the big subsidies for which the screenwriters, the directors, go to try to realize their projects. Les réalisateurs vont pour essayer de réaliser leur projet, mais si j'ai un invité qui l'a fait par lui-même, sans attendre ces grandes subventions, et on va en parler, bienvenue à brandon goto. Salut, brandon. Comment ça va?
Speaker 2:tout, c'est bien. Bonjour à toi. Et ben, ça va, ça va, j'espère que toi aussi. Et encore merci pour l'invitation et l'opportunité de parler de tout ça. C'est très the invitation and the opportunity to talk about all this.
Speaker 1:It's very cool. Ah well, listen, I'm super, super excited. So I'm Belgian originally, but I spent 18 years abroad. I lived in London, paris, madrid, barcelona, but it's been seven months. Let's say that I'm integrating myself into the Belgian cinema industry and when I was told about your work, it really inspired me because I thought there's someone in Belgium who makes these films, who doesn't necessarily expect the subsidies. So I can't wait to talk about what's going on in Belgium, how you started and all that. So maybe you can start by telling us are you self-taught or have you done a school? Because for now, you're a screenwriter and director.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, so I'm self-taught. So it's true that I think, if I had had the opportunity, I would have done the school of cinema. Unfortunately, it was not too possible towards the end of my adolescence. So well, I continued to make films as much as possible, I learned from my mistakes, and it's still not perfect now, but let's say that it's starting to become concrete since 2022. And so finally, self-taught or not, anyway, I tell myself that this is my path. I have to assume it and continue like that.
Speaker 1:In fact, quite simply, I have to assume it and continue like that, in fact, quite simply. And so, how many films have you made? I know you've made short films, and you've made several long films too. How many have you?
Speaker 2:made, and how many have been made without great subsidies but in an self-produced way. Practically all well, not even practically all so. Obviously, if we count the little films since I was a kid, I think we're at the 83rd. But otherwise, since it's concrete, since it's getting pretty serious, I'm at my fifth feature film and a dozen horror short films to say to feed the YouTube channel that we have for our little production. But well, that's really a bonus. So we're going to say five feature films. Officially, that's it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's already fantastic. I mean already the fact of doing five feature films it's still a long CV and then the fact also of self-producing them. Well, I find that absolutely incredible. What is it? So? You were a screenwriter and director for all these films.
Speaker 2:Yes, I write the scripts myself, I direct, I edit too. Well, because well, self-taught and independent, so no choice. But it's not a problem for me. I like to keep control over certain things. But then it's true that, well, five feature films, but it's true that, well, I tell myself every time one is finished, it's almost a miracle, because when we're independent, unfortunately, since there is no grant, no big financial security behind it, everything can break at any time. And so every time I put the final point or the ending credits, it's clear that I say to myself we were lucky, we made it to the end. And well, it seems to be repeated every year. So here we are, let's hope it continues.
Speaker 1:What kind of films do you produce? Répéter chaque année. Donc voilà, espérons que ça continue. Quel genre de film est ce que tu produis? Parce que je sais que tu as produit à des films d'horreur, mais il ya aussi des drames, des drames sociaux. Ce qu'en général, c'est ces deux genres là. Où est ce qu'il ya d'autres genres de cinéma que tu as réalisé?
Speaker 2:bien souvent, tout ce que je réalise est assez noir et une certaine noirceur qui plaignent sur sur mon travail, sur mes films. Après. Bon voilà, je pense que c'est is quite black and a certain blackness that fills on my work, on my films. After good. Here I think it's something quite jambé. Anyway, there is here. It can go from the thriller to horror films or to the drama. But even if it's a simple drama, there is always a small point of horror, a small point of blackness. So I think that here we are, yes, here it is. There is genre in there, that's for sure. It's, it's it's, it's mostly that way there, that's for sure it's a lot of fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I know that some of your films have been nominated, have won prizes. I know that there was the Red Movie Awards. Can you talk about some prizes that you've won? That really warmed your heart.
Speaker 2:The most important for me. There are a lot of festivals, whether online or physically, but for now, the two most important for me. There are a lot of festivals, whether online or in physical, but for now, the two most important prizes that we have won are the prize of the best drama at the Red Movie Awards, a festival that takes on a large scale every year and takes place in Reims. I had two, we had two for the best drama for two of my previous years Iris and Ida. So well, that's it. It's always nice, it's a recognition, because it's complicated to impose oneself as an independent in this landscape. So that's it, but without taking the big head for that, in fact, at the limit. I see that as a reward, but I say to myself oh shit. Well, so you absolutely must not become a dickhead, nor become a self-sacrifice, because unfortunately, there are some who, for much less than that, they take the melon, and so you have to keep the balance in your head, in your motivations. But but the reward is always a pleasure, of course.
Speaker 1:I know that you told me that recently. You can also live in it somewhere, so do your films live on platforms in streaming? What's going on can also live in it somewhere, so do your films live on platforms in streaming. What are some successes that you have been able to achieve now with your films?
Speaker 2:And that's interesting for all those who make independent films. A few years ago, four or five years ago, it was really unimaginable to be able to recover a little bit of your investment on these films, produced and self-produced. We even said that it was a financial hole, that there was a lot of time, money, that we never recovered anything. And there, for a few years, there is a platform called FilmHub, which serves as a relay to publish films on Amazon, on Apple TV, all these platforms, provided that it is accepted, and there I was lucky. Of the five feature films I did, for now there are four that have is accepted and there, well, here I had the chance.
Speaker 2:On the five feature films I made, for the moment there are four that have been accepted and therefore, totally incredible thing, still a few years. There it starts to make money, returns, more and more important, to the point that here is, the investment is no longer lost and therefore we recover our hobbies and it allows us to live more slowly. So so this is something that seemed unimaginable a few years ago. In Belgian independent landscapes. It's starting to be more and more anchored. Frankly, it's great After. I don't do it for money, but it's clear that when there is a return on financial investment, it's nice, even if it's only to produce more.
Speaker 1:And so it's called FilmHub. Yes, yes, yes, and so is it a distribution agency, or is it a platform that is available, that is available to?
Speaker 2:everyone. It's available to everyone. It's true that it could work. It's a kind of agency maybe I don't know if we can say that, but in any case, yes, we sign up, we fill in a sheet for the film we want to publish, so there you have to put the total synopsis, summary, hashtags, everything, the genre, the duration. Well, there, you have to be sure that it meets certain quality criteria, both video and audio. So there's always a chance of two, whether it's taken or not. And so there you go. After that, we can submit the film to the platform, and once it's accepted, it's them who will start, since it's a real distribution company towards Amazon, apple and many other platforms. But it's accessible to everyone, to anyone who has content.
Speaker 1:it's accessible, but is it only for feature films, or is it also for short films?
Speaker 2:There can be series, web series and short films. So for short films, there may be series, web series and short films. So for short films, amazon Prime Video will take much less. I think they are much more inclined to take long films, but it happens that sometimes they accept short films and that allows the director to recover their money.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about the budget. Maybe we can focus. Let's focus, maybe, on your two or three last long films. Maybe, when we say that, maybe first the question is why have you done them without a grant? Have you tried to have one? Have you tried to present it to the Cinema Commission and have you failed? Or have you never tried? You said to yourself, well, anyway, I'll do it anyway.
Speaker 2:For the previous ones. I'm a bit of a fool. So there you go. It takes time for the piece to fall, but I'm very impatient, that's true, and as I had done a lot of short films as a young man, etc. I'm always used to doing things myself and not expecting anything from anyone. So it's true that until a very short time ago, I never passed in commission, and because, in fact, you have to be represented by a producer in the middle and it's him who will allow you to submit the file, to write all that, to constitute all that. So my impatience has made me never try.
Speaker 2:So the budgets for the previous ones were quite small and variable, but we were between 1,000 and 2,000 euros. But on the other hand, for Inferno, which you saw, the ad board in Exclu there, for example, before being generously produced by my friend with a slightly more important budget, I had tried to contact a producer. They were very interested. It was done. So we rewrote the scenario several times. Everything was ready to be put in commission. Finally it went well with them. I think that there is really a gap between the independent and, unfortunately, the directors of the environment. And so, yeah, all that made me even more disgusted to want to go through the commissions After that. It would be good, obviously, but I have the impression that it's already the third producer with whom I'm trying to get through the process, and I think that's the only way to get through the commissions After. It would be good, obviously, but I have the impression that it's already the third producer with whom I'm trying to go through these steps.
Speaker 2:But I think there's something that will be in the way at this level, so I continue independently. But it's clear that one day it would be good that it happens.
Speaker 1:Just for those who listen to us, the cinema commission is really the key point qu'un jour, ce serait bien que ça arrive. Juste pour ceux qui nous écoutent, la commission du cinéma, c'est vraiment le point clé, en tout cas en Belgique francophone, où les cinéastes, les scénaristes, les réalisateurs vont pour pitcher leur projet, pour avoir de l'argent, en général, ils doivent être accompagnés d'un producteur, parce que sinon, ils ne peuvent même pas être vus en commission. Donc, t'as essayé de faire ça à plusieurs reprises. Un de tes derniers films, enfin, sur lequel tu es en post-production maintenant, je pense c'est Inferno. Donc, tu as essayé de passer la commission. Je sais que la compétition en commission est très élevée.
Speaker 1:On reçoit du feedback. Les gens peuvent revenir en commission, mais very high. We receive feedback. People can come back to the commission, but by applying the feedback, the feedback they have. So sometimes it takes months or even years to get there. And so here you really made the choice to make your film by telling yourself well, I don't want to go through all these steps and I'm impatient, I want it to happen and I want it to happen now. Clearly, it's true.
Speaker 2:Well after that. The country is small and I think you have to find the. It's complicated to find the funding, but it's true that, yes, there are sometimes things it's terribly long and there, for the moment, where finally it didn't even come to fruition yeah, it took almost seven months, so it's not much compared to some, but it's true that for me, every film is a question, morally, of life or death. I have to do it. So sometimes I want to be patient for things to go better.
Speaker 2:But there, clearly, in the case of Inferno, I know that it was seven long, painful months between the wait without being sure that it would come true, and next to that, my friend who was looking at me and saying, no, but come back to me, come back to me, I'll give you the money. Well, not the budgets of the Federation, but I'll give you the money and we'll do it right now. Right now, and so well after that. I did it because finally it didn't work out with the commission and the production, but it's true that it's terribly long, and there's even a cinema show in Belgium called Home Cinema, hosted by a Belgian director.
Speaker 2:And then there are directors in the middle who explain the course and how they came to make their first feature film and when I hear people say, for a small film, say yes, it took seven years in commission. But how is it possible? But how Really? I'm going to put myself on the back of certainly many people. But how can we make people so angry? A mature project is necessary, I totally agree with that. But seven years, my God, the poor people. There's nothing to cry about. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:In addition, I can relate, I can so much. How do you say that in French?
Speaker 2:You understand, you identify yourself or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yes, I identify myself so much with this thing that you say for understand, you identify yourself with something like that. Yes, I identify myself so much with this thing that you say for me, it's a question of life or death For me. I have the impression that when there are stories that come to me or that I want to express, they have to be expressed because there is a kind of there now it's, but clearly, clearly it's.
Speaker 2:And I'm not saying that in seven years this story doesn't need to be told but it's clear that there's a distance that.
Speaker 1:No, but clearly, clearly it's something else. No, but it's sure it's something else, it's sure.
Speaker 2:There's, I think, a strong intuition that feeds all that. And then after that it's maybe my scared side of life. But time goes by quickly and the lost days, we won't get them back, and so after that it may be a trap, but I can't say. I say to myself no, no, I can't wait. As long as I can do it, as long as I have health, I can do it. After that we're not all thinking like that, but it's clear that it's a bit my engine to be so productive.
Speaker 1:I tell myself we don't know what tomorrow is made of, so let's enjoy it when you think about it, if someone is seven years old to make a film, he makes a film in seven years, while here you are talking to me about a CV of five long films, ten short films. I don't know how long you did it, but you did it in much less time than seven years and it's an experience.
Speaker 2:The more we have experience, the more we are on the field, the more you improve as an artist. It's clear, yes, there is this side of maintaining the machine, of letting it run well, but after that, it's true that, anyway, even if I'm not complacent about what I do not at all, I'm always the worst critic to advance. But after, yes, obviously, comparatively, it will obviously have nothing to do with a project subsidized with 3 million euros, of course, but in any case, that's what I try with my team every time. It's to try to do things the way they should be done, so that it gets old, well and again, without being complacent. But there, I just just reviewed ida, one of the films that I sent you, which dates from, I think I shot it three years ago. I said to myself go, it's on the road. I was pleasantly surprised. So, as what sometimes? To concentrate well and make sure that it goes through the time. Good, here it is maybe not a project at 3 million euros, but I think that there is something after. Then again, it's maybe subjective.
Speaker 1:You were talking about making a film, a feature film, on budgets of more or less 1,000 to 2,000 euros. Is that more or less the budget on which you are working?
Speaker 2:Except the last one where there was a little bit more, but otherwise, globally it's about that.
Speaker 1:And what is the last step? So?
Speaker 2:the last one. My friend told me listen, I invested 2,000 euros, do what you want with it, get out of here. Then finally he got into the game. He started adding, adding, adding and finally I think we have around 5,000 balls and I think that money doesn't do everything. You need motivation, you need the talents that surround us, the team, etc. But it's true that with hindsight it's a different story. Not everything is done. You need motivation, you need the talents around us, the team, etc. But it's true that with hindsight it's a different story.
Speaker 1:We were able to afford more things thanks to the budget. So it's true that right away it changes the situation. Let's talk about sacrifices, because if we make a film with a reduced budget and here we're talking about a feature film it's still great that you manage to make a feature film on such budgets. What are the things that you were able to afford with those 5,000 euros that you wouldn't have been able to afford with 2,000? Because I suppose there are a lot of people who also give their time voluntarily etc.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, but what to allow you, in addition to those who were extras? Is it the allocation of material? Are these places that you have rented what?
Speaker 2:made it look different After. It's true that, how to explain compared to the others? It's true that the previous films, as there was not much budget, I said to myself well, we're going to limit the sets. Often it's one or two sets. It was even often huis clos with very few characters, and like that. Well, we had a little more budget to scare the actors. That's it. Be sure to provide enough food. No one ever had an appetite for our shooting. But there, where usually there are three, four main characters, there, for example, there were 27 talking roles. So you have to know how to manage all that. So that's it.
Speaker 2:It allowed us to have little assistants who help us during shooting days to do the false rain, to have the means to quote unquote to take this source of false rain to places where usually, without budget, we would not have been able to have them. And so, yes, actually to rent places, sets, to be able to block the streets, because unfortunately, the barriers to barriers, to block the streets for the shoots, it costs. You would think that it's the municipalities of each city who take care of that, but in fact no. So it allowed us to frame things a little better and to lose less time than when we do that in the wild without authorization. But here we are. We depend a little on excuse me the expression the dick that passes three times in the car. So it allowed a little more comfort in the realization, but always looking for the energy to be able to do it. Of course it's not to rest on our shoulders.
Speaker 1:I suppose that, as you already know that you're going to make the film with little budget. I suppose that, as a screenwriter, you already think when you're writing the story, you already think ah, it has to happen in one of the places. Déjà, quand tu es en train d'écrire l'histoire, tu penses déjà à il faut que ça se passe dans un des lieux. Enfin, deux ou trois lieux maximum, c'est les restrictions que tu te donnes. Déjà, quand tu écris le script, où tu laisses, tu laisses ton ton énergie créative aller et puis tu verras.
Speaker 2:Pour les précédents, oui, je me disais bon, je vais écrire en fonction de ce que je suis sûr d'avoir, etc.
Speaker 2:Bon, forcément, il ya des limites, ça n'empêche pas quelques bonnes surprises, mais par contre.
Speaker 2:Well, of course there are limits. That doesn't prevent some good surprises. But, on the other hand, for the next one, which will be released in 2026, for Inferno, as there was finally a scenario version commission which held me very close, finally, when we put the product independently and without a lot of budget I admit, in fact, I didn't even ask myself the question of whether it would be possible or not I said to myself listen, let's throw ourselves into the fire. And finally, finally, by chance, we were able to achieve 90% of what was written After. It's a police thriller, it's not very complicated either, but for once, we were able to really realize everything that was going through our heads, while indeed, in the previous ones, because of the budget, the means, etc. We create according to what we have, and it's not that it's not good, but it changes the mood. It changes the mood to be able to do something, where we say to ourselves this time let's try to imagine what we want and we make it possible, and luckily it was.
Speaker 1:When it comes to the number of shooting days. So you have a budget we will say between 1000 and 5000 euros. You wrote several feature films. The last one you had a little more budget. Let's say between 1000 and 5000 euros. You wrote several feature films. The last one you had a little more budget. How many days did you put in to shoot?
Speaker 2:For the last one. Strangely it's one of my shortest shoots. It only lasted 12 days, but it's because I wanted to inflate an energy, really energivore. I wanted in advance to plan a shoot in advance where we get up very early in the morning, we go to bed very late in the evening with 4-5 sequences to put in the box per day. I really wanted that. If we had wanted, we could have done it in more than two days. But there, really, it was a desire of mine to book it in 12 days and go to the bottom of the box After. For the previous ones, iris in particular there, on the other hand, it was 18 days spread over three months. So there you go. It depends. But there, on the other hand, as there was very, very, very little budget, it came in line of account. But otherwise, generally, my shoots are between 10 and 19 days, but it's very rare when it's over the 15th day.
Speaker 1:So it depends, it depends on the budget on the place we're going to find to stay with everyone. It depends on those things. There is a film that was made in 18 days, spaced over three months, and the last one was 12 days in intensive, 12 consecutive days.
Speaker 2:It's that, finally, the one that's going to come out, inferno, is more ambitious. There are three times more sets, ten times more actors and, finally, we beat the work in ten times more time than the previous one. Well, after that it was still different. Each scenario is different, but in any case, it's possible. I think I found my rhythm of work and I think it's possible to go on like pigs and go to the Franco.
Speaker 1:And so how many people do you have in your team on the shoot? Obviously, you have the actors, and then I suppose there are several people who wear several hats maybe. So how many people are in the crew? And who is it? Or is it because you also tell me that you are a editor? Well, you are. So who is present? Who is it that must be present, and what are the things where you say well, that's it, we'll do it?
Speaker 2:Clearly it was gradual. I think that for my first long there was a make-up artist, there was a sound designer, and that was it the one who didn't have much to do from a certain moment to ensure other positions, or if an actor wasn't shooting, he helped, but it was gradual. For Iris, on the other hand, for lack of means there here he had to get rid of a little. I had to insure several caps, but here with great pleasure, and there, on the other hand, for the latter we had two assistants a set photographer for the sound good, the camera it's me who does it a makeup artist for certain bloody effects planned. So my friend, the producer of the project, who was there every time and who ensured the good course of things. We were about five, six behind the camera. It's not huge compared to the middle, but in any case it was enough to allow us to continue in good condition.
Speaker 1:You tell me that you also do camera, so that means, you are also chef-op on all your shoots.
Speaker 2:in general, I may be wrong.
Speaker 2:Of course there is a photo director who does certainly better than me, but it's a drug. I have to do it. In fact I really have to be in the middle of the action, framed, filmed, etc. I have to be with the actors. So it doesn't bother me. And as I go along I enjoy it, I learn, and the same for the editing. For me it's really the personal relationship to my work, to my film. I couldn't delegate these positions. For me it's too important. After that, there are some who can't do otherwise. But in any case, as far as I'm concerned, no, no, I have to ensure these positions, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:But I find it super interesting that you talk about it because, well, I did a lot of theater before and that's the same thing. There's often not enough budget, so we end up wearing a thousand hats at once when we put on stage and all that. But I realize that by making my films, I still have a lot of trouble delegating what say to myself OK, no, that's the role of such and such, or that's the role of such and such. There is still something at the creative level that is expressed by putting several caps at the same time, which is actually pleasant, even if there is a lot of stress. But at the same time, there is something that is expressed creatively when you wear several caps, which is fascinating in a way, I think there is a side where we learn.
Speaker 2:it allows us to know what we want, what we don't want later. But after, as you say, it may be a vicious circle, in the sense that sometimes it will prevent us from delegating where sometimes we would need it or we would feel suffocated by the help of certain people. So it's true that at the same time it's good, at the same time it's a vicious circle, but at least it makes the work of each person personal, I think. After that, with all the defects and qualities, the advantages and disadvantages I join you on this point.
Speaker 1:A little more personal question on the budget. We talked about the fact that you had between 1,000 and 5,000 euros in general for your feature films. Where does this money come from? Do you have a job on the side and you put it? Aside and in fact, it's economies that you put in. Do you do crowdfunding? Do you have a grandpa, a grandma, a lucky uncle who supports you? Where does this money come from, even if it's a small budget?
Speaker 2:For the first ones by chance. Since I've been very young, I know that I had a pretty important sum that was on the side that was destined to me question of inheritance, etc. So I knew that I was going to use this amount for that after. Obviously, I may have made the mistake of never investing your personal money in the films and it may be a little bit true, because here is the peculum has quickly melted. So here it is.
Speaker 2:It took that here I save money suddenly by doing the freelance, by working in the audiovisual left to right to to build new funds. Then, as we make physical projections in the cinemas, sometimes we recover on the entries, on the sale of posters, etc. Until a year and a half ago where there, in addition to all that on the platforms, it started to return. So it allows you to invest in the next ones. But let's say that the more the years go by, the less I try to invest in personal money, because otherwise it's… Well, after you're going to tell me if I start to live on it very slowly. Finally, it's personal money. But well, let's say it's good to separate. You have to try to separate it has to stay.
Speaker 1:That in any case, I think. And is it that sometimes you are a director or a screen réalisateur ou scénariste sur des projets des autres, ou de manière commerciale, ou tout ça? Ou est-ce que tu es seulement réalisateur, scénariste, quand c'est tes?
Speaker 2:propres projets Écoute. C'est une bonne question parce que, justement, je viens de passer la semaine passée atroce, parce que je ne sais pas comment expliquer. Je ne suis pas quelqu'un de difficile, pas du tout, mais j'ai souvent été convoité avec the years to realize other people's projects, and it was often crazy. After that I may not have the guts to tell you the good or the bad things, but every time I found myself in stuff. But on the eighth time I still didn't understand.
Speaker 2:I think I'm a little handicapped, because this week again, I got involved in something, except that after the eighth time I said to myself no, no, it's selfish, never mind, but never again, never again. And it's not because I think there is a problem with artistic vision or whatever. I think it's not that, but I think I'm just unlucky. There are often those who propose to me or who call me. It turns out that it is not too serious every time. So I know that you shouldn't judge only on these eight experiences, but still it's a lot. So I prefer to devote myself to my projects. But I say that every year, and every time I get involved in completely crazy things. So it would be time for me to learn, because now it's starting to be a lot, but why do you say yes to this project?
Speaker 1:What makes you say yes? Is it a desire for experience? Is it a desire to support someone else? What makes you say yes? I think, as I always want to shoot.
Speaker 2:When it's my feature films, it's at the pace of one per year. When the shooting of one is over, there's always this period where I get In any case I get bored creatively. There's always things to do, but until the next one, even if I start writing, there you go, you have to wait, you can't chain them, you can't go out too fast. So there's always, unfortunately, this period where I, where I give in to boredom, a bit like a camel who, after a period of abstinence, will plunge back in directly, although he knows it's crazy. I don't know why I give in to boredom. And well, after, sometimes, because you have to eat, well, sometimes the proposed remuneration is interesting. But the problem is that I found a dictum a few months ago and I realize that it is quite veridic I'm going to do for money what we wouldn't do for free. And when we say that it solves a lot of things. But yeah, unfortunately I don't know, I let myself know.
Speaker 1:Every time, let's talk about your team. Finally, me, I am also part of a group of international filmmakers. We see each other twice a month on zoom. Finally, it's pretty cool because we can support each other, and then I also learn from people of international filmmakers. We see each other twice a month on Zoom. It's pretty cool because we can support each other and I also learn from people who are more experienced than me and all that and they all talk every time we make a film.
Speaker 1:Let's try to build a team with whom we can work in the long term, and it's really something I'm trying to do, even with my short films of now. There are people who come back and there are people with whom I love to work and that I want to take with me in the different adventures. I noticed, obviously, looking at your work, that there was particularly an actress who comes back, who always has a fairly central role. There are other actors who seem to come back. Maybe there are other actors who seem to come back. Maybe there are other people in your crew crew. Well, how did you build this team that has been following you for a long time? And here they are, who join you in your vision.
Speaker 2:What no, but listen clearly, I share your opinion. I think it's good after that's. It takes time and it's necessary that it works and it has to match. But I think it's interesting to After. It takes time, it has to work, it has to match. But I think it's interesting for you, too, to build your own team and try to move forward with it, provided that everyone is leaving, of course. But I think it's not easy. I think it's just that you have to create a healthy environment to be able to create and especially not get bored and waste time After we can work with the same people, welcome new heads.
Speaker 2:Of course, there's always a time when it will happen, but I think we have to allow ourselves to filter to be sure that each person that we work in good intelligence, because, mind you, to surround yourself is very important. And so, yes, my partner, who is an actress, has held the main role in my last five shows, so we'll think about what we want. Some will say, yes, but it's because she's his wife, so she's in it. But I don't know about each one. It's not a promise. I tell him. Maybe the character won't suit him, or it turns out that so far it's worked. We'll see for the rest and then for the other actors, of course.
Speaker 2:Yes, when something goes well with people, it's not easy. But I say to myself, why go see elsewhere? Except when it's necessary, obviously. But it's true that I try to keep my hands. And musically, by the way, I found a composer with whom it matches very well. We never met in real life, still not. He is French, but it's like marriage. You have to be sure that when you get engaged with certain people, that it works, but being surrounded is essential. Anyway, it always happens to fall on one person or the other who wants to unbalance the ship, but we learn, it happens.
Speaker 1:You told me that it's your wife who appears in many of your films. There are other characters, by the way, who come back. Sorry, it's not the characters who come back, it's the actors who come back to play other characters. When you write a script, do you write it with them already in mind, or do you write the script and then you say, ah well, such a person would do well this role there, sometimes yes and no.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I write as I say, I move forward with my troupe and then we say to ourselves, ah, it would be funny for you to do that. And more generally, in fact, by luck, I consider myself very lucky. I trust them, they trust me very much and at the end of the day, they are very impatient to know what I'm going to propose to them. So, luckily, I'm very honored by that and it's really very cool. But it depends. For example, for Inferno there was the second main role for Michel Angeli, who is a comedian from Brussels, but I wrote it for him. So for some scenarios it's true that I think of a person with whom I work in particular, and sometimes for some I let the choice to test, to check the terrain, to see what could be convenient, because sometimes we can get caught, of course, but sometimes I get them in the way. Quite often, yes.
Speaker 1:So there are surely people who will listen to us, who are there, who say, well, yeah, I want to make my film, no matter if I have the subsidies or not. But how do I put my first team in place? How do you? Well, obviously there's your partner. That's another question. It's more difficult for our partners to say no. But the other people, how did you meet them? To our partners to say no but the other people, how did you meet them? How did you convince them? Was it a fun time between friends? Did you go and recruit people? Did you just call and ask and you say, well, if they say yes, that's better, if they say no, that's fine.
Speaker 2:How did you put your team together the very first time? Well, after all, it's true that everyone's journey is different, but by luck, as I, luckily, at the beginning, when I was little, I did that with my toys. Anyway, they didn't know whether to say yes or no, so no choice for the toys. Then it was my friends, and then, from thread to thread, it was the friends, then a person who had seen my work via Facebook. In fact, it's this person who had introduced me a little bit into the middle of the actors, the actors, the silhouettes, etc. And for my part, in any case, it is from there that I was able to start exploring the middle with these people and to tell myself that, in fact, there is a way to find people. In fact, by posting ads etc. There is a way. So there you go. But after that it is clear that I had business cards.
Speaker 2:It is true that for someone who starts directly, even if he doesn't have business cards to show, in any case, if his script is good, if he believes in it, if he is in love with his film, I think he can convince easily. But I think you shouldn't be afraid to post ads. We are lucky. There are very interesting sites Synergy, some Facebook groups so I think it's not impossible nowadays really. After that, it's clear that it's always complicated to build a volunteer team for the first time, but hey, I think we've all done it. We're all inclined to sometimes give a chance to trust. It really depends. But I think if the person is really in love with creation to do these things, I think that it will be felt and there are people who will trust. So I think it's not impossible. Everyone has their journey but unfortunately for the shy, you have to dare a little bit to get out of the shell and you won't be dead, rest assured.
Speaker 1:What I hear when I listen to your story and, just well, when I look at your personality, I have the impression that it's your mindset that is much more. Well, the glass is full rather than the glass is empty. Well, you have a very positive mindset. There is something very jovial, there is something very well. Yes, we very jovial. There is something very well. Yes, we go. And also often it is it that it contaminates. It contaminates others. You see the energy of others. People want to come on a project where the person is hyper positive.
Speaker 2:What is possible. In any case, it is true that I am not doing all this to get my head around, even less to yell at people, it would be anything. So, yeah, I don't know. Anyway, yes, it is my head around it. Even less to yell at people, it would be nonsense. So, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:In any case, yes, it's clear that I'm enthusiastic, that's for sure. It's maybe that which convinces, and luckily. But there again I say it well, luckily, and I'm really very happy about that and very grateful. It's true that, like most of the films we make have their little adventures. I know that when you have to go and look for actors with whom I have not shot, luckily, they are convinced and they make me blindly confident and say yes, without having read anything. I feel very lucky about that. But I don't know, is it the card of visit, the enthusiasm? I don't know. But in any case, it is clear that normally on my shoots we don't leave crying. Everything goes well. We make sure everything goes well, because what's the point of doing that? Anyway, you have to have fun doing things seriously.
Speaker 1:Can you tell us about one or two hard moments of making a film without subsidies, with a reduced budget, one or two challenges that you had to overcome, or one or two hard moments?
Speaker 2:Yes, no, no, but clearly it was the previous. Previous it was in 2023, pandemonium. I had shot a horror film that worked well on YouTube and there, on the other hand, the shooting was hell. I'm not going to break the sugar and name people, not at all but there was a technical team member and there, on the other hand, it didn't go well. I'm open to suggestions, of course, etc. But there, on the other hand, it was really, I think, a little toxic person and harmful for the good atmosphere of the set and, yeah, it didn't go well.
Speaker 2:Really, I felt like my film was being stolen. After all, it's not selfish, it's our film anyway. But I think you just have to have good faith, and there there wasn't any, and the disadvantage of not being in the middle with the subsidies is that sometimes there are people who are in the team and, because they are friends, we forgive everything, they allow themselves everything and there is a certain weakness that settles. It really becomes the end of the knee and, if we dare to say it, for the love of doing something good, quite simply it becomes complicated and the person can plant you there and you have no plan B. So that's a bit of a problem to be independent. It's sometimes linked to strong friendships, but friendship will a little garner the energy and the fowl of youth to create all that so clearly.
Speaker 2:The shooting of my horror film Pandemonium, that was really it's the case to read it hell. It talks about demonic possession, so that was really. Well, it's the case of reading it. Hell, it speaks of demonic possession. So, yeah, it was really hell. It was maybe the demon, by the way, who supervised the construction. But yeah, no, no, clearly, that was my worst experience.
Speaker 1:But you continued your collaboration. So you expressed what was not going to happen, but you didn't remove the color of the laboratory. You just, you just have a touchy-feely look.
Speaker 2:Well, we finished the film, then we confronted each other because they were also dealing with sound post-production, and that's where it exploded. We confronted each other, we expressed our points of view and there clearly there was too much bad faith and we stayed there. But finally I tell myself that it's not any worse because really, as I said, there was Again I don't want to make this person wear the hat, but I think a weakness was in the team because of this person, because the film afterwards it was no longer there and the energy that deployed. We said to ourselves but damn like what Well surrounded a person can, unfortunately, parasitize good people. It's a shame, I mean, for this person. I don't want to break the sugar and if he continues, that's good, but it's true that it made me learn that I preferred to be well surrounded, to be sure that we want the same things anyway, what could you have prevented this incident?
Speaker 1:Do you think there were red flags before starting the shoot or do you think that we here?
Speaker 2:it just happened once again, the friendship. We forgive everything, we allow ourselves everything and in fact we must respect the people with whom we work and of course, there besides, in the team, it is friends, but in any case it is friends, but we all agreed we pass a deal every time. Listen, here there is with whom we work. Of course, by the way, in the team they're friends, but in any case they're friends, but we all agreed we're talking about a deal every time. Listen, there's no language. We're not going through four paths.
Speaker 2:We want to make the best possible film, even if we suffer a little. No one suffers, but the way we talk, and there you go and at and I say that not in a presumptuous way, like hey, I'm the boss, not at all, because you have to be open to suggestions, you have to share ideas, etc. But I think everyone must want to make the same film and unfortunately, under the pretext of friendship, sometimes we forgive everything. It's perhaps more humanly reasonable, but if we want to invest, as I do in some projects, it is true that unfortunately you have to think about the project. And sometimes I say again, not that you have to be bad, not at all, and we are not. But here I think we have to be clear from the beginning what, as you say, set limits, speak and that's it, and do it before especially.
Speaker 1:But me too. I've been in this kind of situation before, where there's something that's going on, we're friends and all, and then there's one person who unfortunately doesn't follow. But as a project leader, it's also part of our responsibility to be sure that we lead the project to the end. And for the rest of the team too, we must remain respectful, that it remains of quality and all that, but clearly especially in the case you say there, if there is a little black sheep in the water, the worst is that the others too.
Speaker 2:We must not parasitize them by creating tension. We must not let them say, oh my god, where did we fall?
Speaker 1:You also shared with me that on Inferno, you had a strong intuition two weeks before the shoot. And same thing you made a decision. Here we're on the podcast of Loud Whisper Takeover. It's when the intuition is so strong that all we have to do is act on it. What was this intuition two weeks before shooting Inferno?
Speaker 2:The script had been written for many months it was about eight or nine months so I was sure of what I was going to do. We prepared things in such a way we casted the people we needed for what they needed. There was a character, yet central, and in fact it's atrocious, because I had cast the person we had met. She was super nice. Well, fortunately she didn't take it badly, and two weeks before the shoot, at the last meeting, I put everything in question. I said to myself fuck, in fact this character is useless. If we remove him, nothing changes and it also allows to develop more the main character.
Speaker 1:So it's at the level of the scenario.
Speaker 2:In fact, you questioned the scenario, and so there is an actor who has lost his role, but it was important, it influenced the shooting, but in fact, yes, I think it was a mistake.
Speaker 2:If it's a character, we take it away and that finally it doesn't change much and that it allows to feed the main character. It's that finally, it was useless. But it was terrible because having the strong intuition to be a person of the que is very good, but then you have to tell the person who reserved his days in advance, two weeks in advance, it still makes a good, big, crazy blow. So it was atrocious. To be honest with this person, to say listen, it's very weird, but two weeks before we shoot, I think about it and unfortunately, I think that your character will go to hell. It's very weird, but two weeks before we shoot, I think about it. In fact, unfortunately, I think your character will go to hell. It's horrible, horrible. But finally, when I see the result, I say to myself but fortunately. Fortunately, because it would have been what the fuck? There would have been something that would not have been and that would have weakened the thing, but that's it.
Speaker 2:Humanely. That's the problem of meeting people sympathize, they also have projects, so they block their day, etc. And then no, there will be nothing. It's abominable, but unfortunately when the intuition is too strong and there it was it's a march on eggs sometimes.
Speaker 1:Ah, yes, no, I doubt that that must be a very delicate position to manage.
Speaker 2:I said to myself what am I doing? Is it Too bad? I don't say anything and do we take the risk of turning and cutting later, which is out of the question? I said to myself, no, too bad. It's also the learning to be honest and dare to say the changes to people. So it was horrible, but it taught me to think well and be sure of what I want to do and to have the courage to talk about it to people concerned.
Speaker 1:And then one or two moments that were absolutely fabulous the fact that you worked without a subsidy, in fact, and you said to yourself I'm so happy without any subsidies.
Speaker 2:And you said to yourself I'm so happy and well, one or two moments, insanely positive, to have made your films. Well, after, it's true that we're talking about results. But for Iris the previous one, because it's a story I wanted to do a very, very long time ago and well, anyway, I didn't think I'd use it. Well, pass through the commission for that one. But it's true that when I finished, anyway I didn't think I would use it. Well, pass through the commission for this one. But it's true that when I finished it I said to myself ah damn, that's cool, because it's been 10 years that I've been thinking about this thing and now it's done. So I don't know, there was something very positive to say. It's crazy, sometimes there are things that keep you in grip for 10 years and if we go to the end and we're struggling to make them, it's still quite positive and very cool.
Speaker 2:I may be in the juice that's why I say that but recently, a few days ago, for Inferno, I received the last song. The mixing is over. It's really a project that held me in my heart and I wasn't sleeping. It was really a question of life or death to make this film and to tell myself that's it, it's done. There was another year. I barely dared to dream of it and it was done. I just finished it, so maybe that's why, but for now it's maybe the two very, very positive things about all this.
Speaker 1:So what did you learn? What are the great lessons? Life lessons, professional lessons of having made films without subsidies that you might not have been able to learn if you had them.
Speaker 2:Oh well, the debauchery, I think, after. Well, we always learn from our mistakes, but it's a very good question After. It's true that the cinematic experiments in the middle obviously create links, and it's human too. But it's true that here, as we have very little means, the accomplishment is such every time that it reinforces the links Humanly. It's really quite touching and interesting. And that's it again. I'm not complacent about what I do, but I know that in 30 years, if I'm lucky enough to be there again, I will look at all this with a good eye. And it's true that, even if sometimes it's good to have big budgets, it's true that there is a little pride to say to yourself damn, for not much. We still managed to do that. After that, I'm far from the current standards and my films are not perfect, but in any case they're mine. I take them.
Speaker 1:And I'm happy with what they are. Do you sometimes get in a position of doubt? Have you had big doubts? Are there films where you say to yourself at first you're enthusiastic, you say to yourself, we're going to do it, we have a budget of 1,000, 2,000 euros, and then you start to doubt. You say to yourself, but what did I get myself into? Have there been moments?
Speaker 2:of doubt which ones? And how did you overcome them? It happened, it happened, and a lot of times. By the way, if I had had to release them all, there would have been more feature films than that. But I'm so extreme sometimes, and to the end, about what I want my filmography to represent. Sometimes, yes, we happen to shoot stuff for a year and it's not cool. But finally, with a step back, I think everyone agrees and that's better. But I tell myself, no, guys, we're not getting it out. Poubelle, what, what.
Speaker 2:Because there was really something that didn't fit, but for the reason you say, it was five years ago, I was maybe younger. I had the ass between two chairs. I didn't know if I wanted to do dramas, thrillers. I liked it a lot, but at the same time, I was a little asshole. I liked action movies and all that. So not at all now. So, yes, I think there was this research. And then one day I found it and I knew what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2:But clearly, no, no, clearly, there were a lot of projects that I started, or I had doubts. I said to myself what are we doing? There is a thing that does not vibrate in me. And well, there we went to the end. Finally, I did not go out for these reasons, because I did not want that. I did not want this film to represent my doubts. After there are some who will say, yes, but will learn. At least you show it and you will learn. But I'm quite selective about it. But that's it. It taught me. It taught me to overcome doubts etc. And at least now I don't bother to do things just because it's cool. You really have to choose the right project that vibrates the inside, that makes us shiver at night when we think about it.
Speaker 1:I would like to bounce back on that, because I find that there is a huge courage to not release a film for one reason or another, because we realize that the world doesn't need to see it, because it may not be the story we want to tell, because the quality may not be high enough or whatever. But there is also courage to say to ourselves we filmed it, but we will not release it, the public will not see it. There is a huge courage. Then you can speak, also because it is a bit my research and it is funny, because so I set up a whatsapp group for Belgium so that we can network.
Speaker 1:And one of my goals, also that I started is to set up small research workshops, because in theater we only do that, we only do research, research, research, research and we get stuck and that's it. And before having a show. But on the other hand, in the middle of the film, because it takes so much time and well, if you need equipment and all that, it requires resources. Well, in fact, no one takes the time to research, to do just research, filming for the fun of filming. But we always do it with well, we need a result, and there I put in place a little research workshop movement camera, action film camera, fight scene camera, and it's super cool because I think we need more space for research, clearly, clearly.
Speaker 2:And then I think that it would not disappoint some, because there are so many who are waiting for the right time to make the film. And there we go, into years of finally doing nothing, although I think it costs money, time, money, obviously. But it's true that I think we have to turn, turn, turn, turn anyway, and we can get stuck. We have to get stuck because at least it takes on what we want to do later and in the worst case, well after. As you say, you have to be brave, by the way. Well you for what you say. But the person is in any case master of getting it out or not, or of making the thing more concrete or not. So I think we have to do it. And then there are people who will assume to share their failures, others not, like me. I prefer to silence that, but I think we must not stop doing it. And, as you say, we have to look, because there are prodigies. There are.
Speaker 2:Il ne faut pas s'arrêter de faire Et, comme tu dis, il faut chercher, parce qu'après il y a des prodiges, il y a des génies, mais ce n'est pas en s'y essayant qu'une fois, ou alors vraiment un gros coup de bol. Mais non, il faut affiner, il faut affûter la lame, il faut creuser, il faut creuser Et au bout d'un moment, on tombe sur la bonne pierre qui nous fait vibrer on the stone. That makes us vibrate. But, as you say, you have to look, you have to exercise, you have to allow yourself that.
Speaker 1:What is your goal in five or ten years? Do you manage to project yourself in the next ten years? Do you hope, do you aspire to have big budgets, the commission of cinema subsidies, or do you say to yourself no, I'm going to continue on this path as a self-producer, and it will follow its path. What is your future vision?
Speaker 2:A few years ago I tried to see in the long term, but as nothing ever happens as planned, I stopped. So I try to live a little bit day by day, film after film, because generally for some directors there is their private life and their film, and me, on the other hand, everything is for them, everything is really permeable, it's really that's it. My life accompanies well, the films accompany my life. So that's it. I live the adventure of each film after film, year after year.
Speaker 2:After that, it's true that, institutionally and vis-à-vis of legal status, etc. Yes, it would be good one day to have funds from a commission simply to be paid again. I'm not saying that just for the money, but to be paid so that we annoy the freelancers a little less about the number of hours they have to do, so as not to be bothered by certain organizations, for example. So that's it. For that it would be good. But after, clearly, with the discussion I had with a producer recently and which comes back often, I think that my style and my projects are completely on the verge of what is being done. So I think I will continue as an independent and I think that one day it will develop more and more, but I'm waiting to see how it will go. But as long as I can still do it, that's fine. But it would be good to secure the status a little. There is a moment when you need, I think, stability, and it's true that in this environment, whether it's independent or in the middle, it's always a bit complicated.
Speaker 1:And so, to finish, the people who listen and who want to get started in this adventure to produce their own films, especially their own feature films, with or without subsidies, on a small budget, what are the three tips you give them to succeed in this adventure and to encourage them to do so?
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's really tips listed like that, but in any case, I think, do it. Even if it's a little thing, do it. It's not serious guys, there's no Damocles sword above your head. If it's not good or not, do it really. And if it's really your thing, if you have the knack for that, you're going to enjoy it and you'll want to continue anyway. And at worst, if the experience disgusts you, it can come back to you later. It can direct you to something else, it can teach you things.
Speaker 2:So I don't really have three particular tips, but anyway, do things anyway all the time, never stop as long as it's possible obviously, health, availability, time, etc. And get around and, above all, especially not hesitate to. So that's it. That's three tips. The third is to listen to yourself, listen to your instinct, what you really like, what you really want to do, and not compromise. At the beginning we all want to compromise. We say to ourselves, yes, but at worst no, no, no, no. Really you have to follow your inner voice, clearly. I think that's the most important really.
Speaker 2:In any case, thank you very much, brandon for sharing your experiences. You're welcome.
Speaker 1:We'll put a little trailer of Inferno, when this trailer is ready, in the notes of the episode. It works.
Speaker 2:Thank you, it was really very nice.
